The Lead for a Gancho

Peaches said:
By definition, a gancho can't happen without that interrupting leg, for one thing.
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It's actually happened to me, in the last week! I was leading an overturned back cross step to my right, and intended to lead a gancho, but never got to intrude my leg in time (because we were both hopelessly off balance, but that's another story). She obviously thought I intended a gancho (I did intend one), and she duly flicked her foot back - but there was nothing there, until she came back down again, by which time my foot had arrived, and I got kicked for my trouble.

It was very funny, but it underlines the paradox, for me. She 'should have' just taken a back step - but she was never going to, and it wasn't making contact with my leg that made her suddenly be 'active' in shaping a hook, because it wasn't there.
 
UKDancer said:
It's actually happened to me, in the last week! I was leading an overturned back cross step to my right, and intended to lead a gancho, but never got to intrude my leg in time (because we were both hopelessly off balance, but that's another story). She obviously thought I intended a gancho (I did intend one), and she duly flicked her foot back - but there was nothing there, until she came back down again, by which time my foot had arrived, and I got kicked for my trouble.

It was very funny, but it underlines the paradox, for me. She 'should have' just taken a back step - but she was never going to, and it wasn't making contact with my leg that made her suddenly be 'active' in shaping a hook, because it wasn't there.
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That's just bad following. Anticipation. Perhaps it's a combination you've led before (successfully! ;))? I really don't see it as a case of everything in the lead being there for the gancho except the leg--I see it as a follower anticipating what she thought she knew was going to happen (that it was what you were going to do is immaterial--unless you said, "Here comes a gancho!" she doesn't know what's going on in your brain.). That's just anticipation, pure and simple. Which is bad following, pure and simple.
 
opendoor said:
Also cant find it, but?, german, think it was kind of an un-understandable east-saxonian gibberish, wasnt it?
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that's the one! gibberish reading again I would love to do, also with the video seeing.

But not finding it am I with a DF Engine of Searching

Know you its whereabouts/location/position/link to a page/author?
 
UKDancer said:
Oh, agreed.

I think I had better withdraw my earlier use of 'contradiction' and replace it with 'paradox', perhaps? I could put my question in a different way: who actually dances the follower's gancho, the follower, or the leader? If the leader did everything with his body that would lead a gancho, but didn't actually intrude his leg in the path of the follower's, might she ever gancho anyway?
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I have to admit that i have basically eliminated the gancho from the vocabulary that i usually dance because i feel it takes too much space and i like inside enganches better, so please take this with a grain of salt.


That said, if the leader did everything with his body that would lead to a gancho (i.e. lead her into a back step around him, stop when she is in the middle of the next step) she will gancho anyway because that is very similar to an in-line boleo. In a gancho the stop by the body is preceded by having contact with the leg, but the follower is not actually stopped by the leg, but becasue the leader is not leading her beyond this point of contact.

So I think this is a bit of a misleading question - the lead for a backstep/to continue the giro is different than the lead for a gancho. The lead for a gancho contains a stop of her motion while a leg is free, and this stop creates an impulse she can use for whatever she wants, includign a hook. There is actually another point in the continuum - the followers backwards saccada where there is a leg contact and she just walks through it because the leaders impulse never stops.

I tend to think of the gancho as just a wrap. And just like an enganche the follower has a lot of leeway in how to shape the impulse - e.g. a lot of followers don't like really high enganches, so they either tune them down to just a tiny one, or completely absorb the energy and don't do anything, or do a tiny and tight forward ocho. That doesn't mean that the enganche wasn't lead, or that it wasn't followed. As in everything tango it is danced by both: the leader offers an opening and energy, and the follower uses that opening and energy as she wants. Now in some circumstances there are more and easier choices than in others, but that doesnt't mean that they are danced less together.

Gssh
 
Gssh said:
I have to admit that i have basically eliminated the gancho from the vocabulary that i usually dance because i feel it takes too much space and i like inside enganches better
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Could you point to a video with enganches please? Because people use this word to describe different things
 
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