ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I think that's common everywhere. It depends on the individual DJ. I get tired of it as well when there's too much of it.
The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?
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itwillhappen
Forum Master
In classes and workshops, dual-role dancing is obviously a solution because you can increase the capacity. If you register without a partner and constantly rotate, this is more or less implicitly the case, earlier or later. But in neck of the woods, people mostly register with a partner, mainly to keep the level of inconvenience when learning to a minimum.
And so a friend recently asked me if I wanted to attend a drop-in class with him, maybe dual-role, as he hadn't found a lady.
I found that quite funny, because in my opinion he is the most sought-after leader in town. And I suspect at least one of the women he asked also took part in a female couple. The lesson itself was also quite entertaining, and we weren't any worse than the unmusical average. A female friend who has access to a suited location is soon hiring a teacher for a private workshop weekend. I strongly suspect that she will test whether she can already lead me, while I can hardly follow.
And this is not limited to the learning context, I have also experienced this at milongas. This is far too attractive for women, if they are allowed to at least try it for half a song, they seem to be really happy.
And so a friend recently asked me if I wanted to attend a drop-in class with him, maybe dual-role, as he hadn't found a lady.
I found that quite funny, because in my opinion he is the most sought-after leader in town. And I suspect at least one of the women he asked also took part in a female couple. The lesson itself was also quite entertaining, and we weren't any worse than the unmusical average. A female friend who has access to a suited location is soon hiring a teacher for a private workshop weekend. I strongly suspect that she will test whether she can already lead me, while I can hardly follow.
And this is not limited to the learning context, I have also experienced this at milongas. This is far too attractive for women, if they are allowed to at least try it for half a song, they seem to be really happy.
Your biases are showing
itwillhappen
Forum Master
"My belly belongs to me"!Your biases are showing
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I dance with a strong gender bias, no question about it, and I don't stop anyone from doing it differently - this is a free country.
One can see how strong the own bias is if one imagines a "parallel universe" with reversed roles:
tango-therapist.blogspot.com
One can see how strong the own bias is if one imagines a "parallel universe" with reversed roles:
Why men dance with men on Planet O
Tango for psychological wellbeing. The blog explores dance as a primal part of our humanity, as seen by children dancing naturally. Have we forgotten?
tango-therapist.blogspot.com
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I dance with a strong gender bias, no question about it, and I don't stop anyone from doing it differently - this is a free country.
One can see how strong the own bias is if one imagines a "parallel universe" with reversed roles:
Why men dance with men on Planet O
Tango for psychological wellbeing. The blog explores dance as a primal part of our humanity, as seen by children dancing naturally. Have we forgotten?
Apologies, but I really can't get behind the writer shoving in bits and pieces of Eastern philosophy whenever he feels like it.
I do not wish to politics into this. And this is the best place to address sociological shifts in everything related to gender in the past 8 or 9 years. Looking at the gains that a Trump made with men under 30 of all races, one is left to question why these men supported him. The polls had predicted it but now one bothered to ask why. Most young men are for abortion, an issue which won again despite who won’t the presidency. So it is not like they support Trump due to Republican Party position on abortion (which is widely unpopular). The common theme is that economy hit them hard.
One sociological phenomenon not explored is how masculinity has been discussed since start of the 2010s decade. Lot of left leaning woke talk focused on toxic masculinity without bothering to define role models for normal masculinity. The young voters who are under 30 grew up during college days where lot of conflicting message was being given to them. By mid-2010s there were already alarm bells being raised by sociologists about boys being in trouble in the USA. Looking back at the wokeness and the messaging, it seems to be current generation of young men were being burden and faulted with entire history of men’s subjugation of women for a millennia or more. What are most college age guys are interested in? Girls would be in top 3 priorities. Yet I heard some very interesting discussions on NPR about what consent means and when no is a no and when no is a yes during consensual courtships. Those discussions revolved around as the college campuses were rolling out principle of consent in the orientation classes for incoming freshman class. A lot of heteronormative male behavior started getting clubbed with toxic masculinity. I remember left wondering, what do these people pursuing the agenda want the guys to really behave. Who and where were the role models. I am guessing to immature young brains this was sending thoroughly confusing signals as well as assigning them blame for entire manhood of the universe. So when they hear people like Vance and a lot of right wing podcasts making appealing statements on how the men are being wronged and ignored, that message was easily to seep in.
I didn’t see any election related survey address above point from sociological conditioning of a generation of young men and how it could impact their election choices.
P.S. among cultural wars related to gender politics one of the enduring images is that of left leaning personalities unable to reply to a simple question “what is a woman”. Scientific answer is very complicated. But layman answer is not and shouldn’t be.
One sociological phenomenon not explored is how masculinity has been discussed since start of the 2010s decade. Lot of left leaning woke talk focused on toxic masculinity without bothering to define role models for normal masculinity. The young voters who are under 30 grew up during college days where lot of conflicting message was being given to them. By mid-2010s there were already alarm bells being raised by sociologists about boys being in trouble in the USA. Looking back at the wokeness and the messaging, it seems to be current generation of young men were being burden and faulted with entire history of men’s subjugation of women for a millennia or more. What are most college age guys are interested in? Girls would be in top 3 priorities. Yet I heard some very interesting discussions on NPR about what consent means and when no is a no and when no is a yes during consensual courtships. Those discussions revolved around as the college campuses were rolling out principle of consent in the orientation classes for incoming freshman class. A lot of heteronormative male behavior started getting clubbed with toxic masculinity. I remember left wondering, what do these people pursuing the agenda want the guys to really behave. Who and where were the role models. I am guessing to immature young brains this was sending thoroughly confusing signals as well as assigning them blame for entire manhood of the universe. So when they hear people like Vance and a lot of right wing podcasts making appealing statements on how the men are being wronged and ignored, that message was easily to seep in.
I didn’t see any election related survey address above point from sociological conditioning of a generation of young men and how it could impact their election choices.
P.S. among cultural wars related to gender politics one of the enduring images is that of left leaning personalities unable to reply to a simple question “what is a woman”. Scientific answer is very complicated. But layman answer is not and shouldn’t be.
Again, without politics, depends where, and how deeply, you look. I've seen a preliminary analysis of female voters and motivations. I'd put it more at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, or perhaps more appropriately 'desires'.
Difficult to 'save the world', or a political system, when you haven't got a job, home or healthcare, etc. Couple that with media adverts for a lifestyle you may desire, but is out if reach unless you copy xyz. I don't get 'role models' in any sphere.
However, applied to AT, I'd guess it also changes with age, or perhaps 'maturity' is a better description. Some just don't 'grow up'! You can read of old, and aging, milongueros' preferences in the opposite sex. I suppose the key difference is that non-Argentines have emphasized 'dance' whilst, it originated in a social occasion with dance.
It is impossible to create a rigorous definition of "woman" that includes everyone you wish to include and excludes everyone you wish to exclude. Not unlike the discussion about the tricky term "sport" from other threads. For what it's worth, defining "man" is equally challenging. I have some complaints about left behavior, but this is not one of them.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Tango is an excellent opportunity for social learning, but it still does not have the social legitimacy to act as a counterweight. It is in line with our basic democratic values that the majority decides, and in practically all dance forms in Northern Europe that means women. Tango is therefore becoming more feminine, with more Pilates and Yoga and Yin and Yang.
It is not clear whether in absolute numbers fewer men will dance. And even if I am worried about the beginners' area, including long-term beginners, it is only a leisure activity and not a social problem. Ultimately, a lack of men is, if at all, a women's issue. Women have no obligation to solve that, it is just pointless to complain.
And for advanced male leaders, how can I put it, I have the feeling that golden times are dawning. Many women actually lead a maximum of 50% and for the other 50% they need leaders with an experience that they themselves often cannot achieve with their 50%. Apart from that, I feel like dancing with men is more and more becoming a matter of status for women, like it was in the past an ability to lead.
I'll agree about 'rigorous', but not too difficult if you simplistically consider the difference between 'sex' and 'gender'. Choose your 'gender' if you want to and I may not recognise that, but you came with a specific 'sex' (although that's not a simple binary and there are borderline uncertainties).
A recent UK discussion has delved into 'worker' regarding who pays more taxes. Neither helpful nor edifying.
This is exactly the problem. Bailango said that the science is complicated, and you seem to agree. So if you want the scientific facts to play a role in the layman definition of these terms, the layman definition is also going to be complicated, which is precisely what we are saying should not be the case.
To get a simple definition of these terms, you need to keep science out of it. But that sort of squishiness doesn't typically satisfy people who like clarity and objectivity.
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pianistamediano
Forum Master
I could just accuse them of cultural appropriation (being an Asian-born Chinese) and watch them fall over themselves trying to justify the correctness of their actions.
In all seriousness, though, they're almost always using the concept of Yin-Yang divorced from its historical, cultural and traditional origins in Chinese philosophy, and instead shove it into whatever mystical, woo-woo, spiritual or otherwise energy-related context they want to promote. Most of the time I can't really be bothered to care about this, but there's always that one person who rubs me the wrong way.
I could just accuse them of cultural appropriation (being an Asian-born Chinese) and watch them fall over themselves trying to justify the correctness of their actions.
If you believe in cultural appropriation (I don't), then us foreigners in general already culturally appropriated AT
However I do find it annoying when people try to randomly fuse concepts that they don't really understand in the first place. It's not restricted to Asian philosophy as I've heard equally nonsensical stuff about quantum physics.
Scientific understanding moves on forever. I don't need to know Einstein's relativity to understand everyday Newtonian mechanics. The issue is really that 'sex' and 'gender' have become toxic subjects hurled across some political divide - with aspects of mysticism and religion added.
I think the people who pick up on this really just want their absolute subjective viewpoint with a hint of self-justification.
I go with a simple viewpoint for day-to-day life, but I try not to be inhibited by that. Some things are about personal choices; others are about basic chemistry and biology.