The long-term solution is dual-role dancing?

[Miradamiranda]

However there are some other milongas where almost everyone is above 60.

Small town here with only one fixed milonga a week without going to neighboring towns/villages/cities (which we do, however), so we don’t have the opportunity to segregate by age.

 

[opendoor]

..don’t have the opportunity to segregate by age.

Often the Collegiate and University sport is a niche for the younger tango crowd. And here there is also an overlap with the contact scene.

 

[russianwithin]

You missed an opportunity to name the thread "what are organizers doing wrong"

Catchy name that will definitely get the people talking. We should start one.

 

[russianwithin]

It's a workaround, not a solution. Just a sticking plaster which may exacerbate the problem.

If there were sufficient males wishing to dance with women then that problem wouldn't exist, or even be discussed. I can't envisage many men nowadays embarking on an initial dual-role dance course, although some women might. Obviously, historically, it was a dual-role course with an obvious societal objective, so I don't write it off entirely.

Better to consider the male gender social psychology and what might encourage them to learn to dance. The prospect of meeting prospective partners and relationships has long been overtaken after the GA with rock 'n roll and now easier dating options and lifestyle.

Of course some male-role influencer may find it a good promotion to male bonding, forming relationships, nostalgia, 'real life' as opposed to a virtual world, etc, etc, by dual-role dancing with the prospect of being with 'real' people, e.g. early practicas. Just needs to lose the ballroom stereotypes and come from the slums, not the dancefloor.

So the question is, why don't men go into Tango dancing more. There are obviously enough women to dance and socialize with and it seems it would be an obvious and popular choice for many. The online dating ofcourse is one, as you mentioned, but the fear of embarrassment is probably the leading cause. How to overcome that.

 

[russianwithin]

Often the Collegiate and University sport is a niche for the younger tango crowd. And here there is also an overlap with the contact scene.

I found that college clubs are a huge element of success for the dance community in general. If there is a way to integrate the college dancers smoothly into the existing dance scene, everyone benefits. however college dance clubs are the labor of love with lots of time investment and little monetary return on that time, so its really hard to find the people who are willing to run it long term. Some sort of sponsorships for college tango clubs is needed.

 

[opendoor]

..why don't men go into Tango.. but the fear of embarrassment is probably the leading cause. How to overcome that..

The beginning leader certainly cannot yet estimate what is in store for him, whether in tango, salsa, lindy hop or bachata sensual. And at the moment, young men are jostling for space in the bachata sensual classes and torturing themselves with body rolls and waves. It is fashion trends that lead men to one dance or another. Tango is simply not en vogue at the moment. And honestly, at the moment I also prefer dancing swing to tango. Everything changes, including taste.

 

[Bailango]

I found that college clubs are a huge element of success for the dance community in general. If there is a way to integrate the college dancers smoothly into the existing dance scene, everyone benefits. however college dance clubs are the labor of love with lots of time investment and little monetary return on that time, so its really hard to find the people who are willing to run it long term. Some sort of sponsorships for college tango clubs is needed.

Out here the university clubs have served as good way for the dancers to enter the larger dance community for social partner dancing. Not only tango, but university clubs also have salsa, swing, waltz, and other dances. Each run by its own club. So they don’t mix on the campus.

They are not a huge element. We have at least 3 or 4 major university campuses around, which together easily must have a body 75K to 100K student body. Faculty and employee additional. There are other smaller college campuses but I don’t think they have social dancing clubs. At most these clubs might contribute to dozen or so new dancers into the larger community each year at most. That makes sense since social dancing is not a big activity that students folk go on the campus. It needs time and effort to get decent enough. Given about 50 or 60 new students start learning at the university club every year, a dozen becoming regulars in the larger scene is on par. The drop out rate and those that persist is no different than those who start taking dance classes.

Another reason it has a small impact is that once the students graduate a lot of them will move out to where they find jobs out next opportunity in their career.

You are correct. Who runs them is important to how effective they are. The club officials change every two years or so. It is all voluntary in addition to their other activities and course load. I don’t see how sponsorship will help. You still need people who have time to run the club and interested people who can devote some time to learning the dance.

 

[russianwithin]

Out here the university clubs have served as good way for the dancers to enter the larger dance community for social partner dancing. Not only tango, but university clubs also have salsa, swing, waltz, and other dances. Each run by its own club. So they don’t mix on the campus.

They are not a huge element. We have at least 3 or 4 major university campuses around, which together easily must have a body 75K to 100K student body. Faculty and employee additional. There are other smaller college campuses but I don’t think they have social dancing clubs. At most these clubs might contribute to dozen or so new dancers into the larger community each year at most. That makes sense since social dancing is not a big activity that students folk go on the campus. It needs time and effort to get decent enough. Given about 50 or 60 new students start learning at the university club every year, a dozen becoming regulars in the larger scene is on par. The drop out rate and those that persist is no different than those who start taking dance classes.

Another reason it has a small impact is that once the students graduate a lot of them will move out to where they find jobs out next opportunity in their career.

You are correct. Who runs them is important to how effective they are. The club officials change every two years or so. It is all voluntary in addition to their other activities and course load. I don’t see how sponsorship will help. You still need people who have time to run the club and interested people who can devote some time to learning the dance.

These are some good stats. I see what you mean with the numbers being small. However, one thing that I think you might be overseeing is that having a group of young people part of the dance community make it more attractive for everyone else to be a part of and to stay being a part of. It makes it more trendy, more attractive and more "hip". Thoughts?

 

[russianwithin]

The beginning leader certainly cannot yet estimate what is in store for him, whether in tango, salsa, lindy hop or bachata sensual. And at the moment, young men are jostling for space in the bachata sensual classes and torturing themselves with body rolls and waves. It is fashion trends that lead men to one dance or another. Tango is simply not en vogue at the moment. And honestly, at the moment I also prefer dancing swing to tango. Everything changes, including taste.

The sensual bachata trend is definitely taking over every class out there, even salsa if you can believe it. All ages and all demographics. However I am not sure those men won't be disillusioned with the lack of interest from the followers they are trying to dance with, who want to be a part of the "young and hip" "good dancer" group.

 

[Bailango]

These are some good stats. I see what you mean with the numbers being small. However, one thing that I think you might be overseeing is that having a group of young people part of the dance community make it more attractive for everyone else to be a part of and to stay being a part of. It makes it more trendy, more attractive and more "hip". Thoughts?

I meant a dozen per university. So about 20 to 30 for tango. Salsa used to get more like 30 to 40.

The over all population in the metro area tends to be young. Compared to many other cities or metro areas. That means a lot of 20 and 30 something’s with significant disposable income.

We have milongas where there is more hip crowd. We have milongas that have more old well-off crowd. Unlike in salsa, I do not see much blue collar or working class strata in tango community. However there are others like teachers, etc whose income level is low. But these are lower paying white collar jobs.

 

[Bailango]

The sensual bachata trend is definitely taking over every class out there, even salsa if you can believe it. All ages and all demographics. However I am not sure those men won't be disillusioned with the lack of interest from the followers they are trying to dance with, who want to be a part of the "young and hip" "good dancer" group.

Sensual Bachata is primarily attractive to below 30 or below 40 crowd. That and zouk are not something that women who are 35+ want to folk to. Too many body rolls and hair whips, that keeps older women away.

Older men also look awkward standing there while the follower controts herself into different rolls, shapes, and whips.

 

[pianistamediano]

They are not a huge element. We have at least 3 or 4 major university campuses around, which together easily must have a body 75K to 100K student body. Faculty and employee additional. There are other smaller college campuses but I don’t think they have social dancing clubs. At most these clubs might contribute to dozen or so new dancers into the larger community each year at most. That makes sense since social dancing is not a big activity that students folk go on the campus. It needs time and effort to get decent enough. Given about 50 or 60 new students start learning at the university club every year, a dozen becoming regulars in the larger scene is on par. The drop out rate and those that persist is no different than those who start taking dance classes.

Another reason it has a small impact is that once the students graduate a lot of them will move out to where they find jobs out next opportunity in their career.

It's more that kids these days can't handle being shite at something for a long time, so they need something extra to keep them coming back for more until they're actually somewhat competent enough.

But yes, your numbers seem about right, judging from my time in the university tango society committee pre-Covid. Very true about students being transients too. I'm not too familiar with the university societies here in London (IIRC KCL, UCL?), but I think we get a contingent at most major events (special milongas, well-known/well-liked visiting teachers, etc.), the occasional visitor, a few regulars.

 

[russianwithin]

Sensual Bachata is primarily attractive to below 30 or below 40 crowd. That and zouk are not something that women who are 35+ want to folk to. Too many body rolls and hair whips, that keeps older women away.

Older men also look awkward standing there while the follower controts herself into different rolls, shapes, and whips.

It is so personality dependent. I have seen so many 35+ men go into those sensual bachata classes, or try to. And last week I have witnessed another 50+ follower asking for bachata body movement. I don't know.. I think both crowds need each other for the community to function.

 

[russianwithin]

I meant a dozen per university. So about 20 to 30 for tango. Salsa used to get more like 30 to 40.

The over all population in the metro area tends to be young. Compared to many other cities or metro areas. That means a lot of 20 and 30 something’s with significant disposable income.

We have milongas where there is more hip crowd. We have milongas that have more old well-off crowd. Unlike in salsa, I do not see much blue collar or working class strata in tango community. However there are others like teachers, etc whose income level is low. But these are lower paying white collar jobs.

Tango is more expensive. The workshops and the milongas, even the shoes are more expensive. Young crowd doing sensual bachata can't pay more than $15/p for a social and thats a stretch. But social media that supports the dance community growth so much won't work without the young crowd. Both crowds need each other it seems.

 

[opendoor]

Tango is more expensive..

I think you've made an important point. The swing parties and salsa parties that I attend take place in the spaces of publicly funded cultural initiatives or public school cafeterias. The maximum entrance fee is 5€, but in most cases below. All my tango milongas take place in proprietary studios and cost 10€/p upwards. I think that the tango scene is snobbish and slowly degenerating.