The #metoo movement and how it applies to the dance community

[Wannabe Triple Threat]

@Wannabe Triple Threat
I never said social media is an excuse for inappropriate behavior. How did you deduce that from what I wrote? I am saying that in the past for guys who lack social awareness, at most they'd be banned from the venue and that was it. They learn their lesson and move on. Now, you can literally destroy them with twitter and facebook and smear them as a creep for all the world to see.

Referring to social media -- I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you meant that because of social media, some people were more likely to be clueless; not that social media was the venue in which it was addressed. My apologies.

Address what safely? A clumsy male lead dancer who is still learning and accidentally grazed a body part of yours? If you're gonna have that unforgiving and hostile of an attitude, then maybe men shouldn't bother at all trying to learn to dance.

When I was learning to ski when I was younger, I accidentally lost control and sometimes plowed into people and in one instance knocked a person over. It's part of learning.

I wasn't being necessarily specific to dance. It was more of a generalization of how many girls are raised to behave and react in social situations, to which dance often applies.

 

[open_mind]

On social awareness: I understand it can be difficult for guys, but if a girl likes you, she for sure will let you know, learning to recognize the signs is crucial. I would say keep your distance and observe her for a while if your intention is beyond just dancing. Don’t ask to dance more than two dances in a row, that’s an instant turnoff. And if she declines your advances, don’t switch your attention to another girl instantly, that’s a sure way to earn the creeper reputation.

 

[SwingingAlong]

I've done this twice. Both times, it resulted in the situation being resolved - once, the behaviour changed, and in the second instance, the "gentleman" was subsequently informed that he was no longer welcome.

Same, and same.

 

[SwingingAlong]

Don’t ask to dance more than two dances in a row, that’s an instant turnoff. ....

Does the reverse apply? I had a situation where I was at a social with DH but he only knew 2 dances. One guy who was visiting was dancing by himself, as the rest were doing a set of dances he didn't know. So I asked would he like to dance together, and we did. The next dance in the set he also didn't know.... so we kept dancing together until there was a dance he knew. But then he asked to dance that with me as well (it was a Tango, which DH still hasn't learnt yet) and then we just kept on dancing until there was one I could dance with DH. We maybe did....5 in a row? I saw his point, all of the others were dancing with their usual partners, and some of the beginners didn't wish to dance with him as he was pretty advanced. I was just having a huge amount of fun, as was he, trying out his leading skills on someone he'd never danced with before. It was awesome, and I thanked him profusely.... he placed in our national competition later the same year.... no wonder it felt so good. So sometimes, it is ok for more than one!

 

[DL]

We maybe did....5 in a row? I saw his point, all of the others were dancing with their usual partners, and some of the beginners didn't wish to dance with him as he was pretty advanced. I was just having a huge amount of fun, as was he, trying out his leading skills on someone he'd never danced with before. It was awesome, and I thanked him profusely.... he placed in our national competition later the same year.... no wonder it felt so good. So sometimes, it is ok for more than one!

Once I thought I was in not-quite-this situation at a social dance with a classmate with whom I was friendly, with whom I truly enjoyed dancing, and whose DF alter ego I had deduced. Immediately prior, she had several dances in a row with a different lead. Later that week I saw her complain on DF about an over-asking lead. I never figured out whether she meant the other fellow or me; and I worried that I had ruined that dance relationship; and I sought her as a social dance partner far less often afterward.

It's tricky. Still, over time sincere good faith will be broadly evident in the community, as will selfishness.

 

[Akylas]

Dances are usually a safer environment than clubs from what I've seen, although I think a lot of it depends on the people running things. There are always going to be some people who get the idea that since dance involves touching and inappropriateness can be explained as "accidents" they can take advantage. Organizers set the tone for how those people are dealt with.

I know the person in charge of the swing dance I've been going to is good about that, while also being aware of and addressing some of the mistakes new dancers of both roles make that increase the incidence of genuine accidents. I've heard the fear about people being trashed on social media over accusations, but I don't see it happen much outside of high profile situations involving celebrities. Even then people seem to have very short memories.

So far my wife hasn't run into any creeps, just a few guys in the predance lessons that think they can not only give bad advice, but do so rudely.

Btw, I am still genuinely interested in some guidance on my question above, since I encounter this situation more often than I'd like. If I happen to come off as just a little too friendly (which frankly doesn't seem to take much) to the new guy (who is insecure about his beginner dance skills), I often find myself having to fend off the third dance in a row or an extended conversation when I'd rather be dancing.

This probably isn't terribly insightful but I don't think you owe them anything other than being polite. You could maybe try to point them to other beginner friendly dancers to encourage them mingle instead of fixating on you. Still, if all you said was "sorry, I'd like to dance with some other people tonight, too" or something like it then any damage to fragile egos is on the people possessing them.

 

[IndyLady]

So far my wife hasn't run into any creeps, just a few guys in the predance lessons that think they can not only give bad advice, but do so rudely.

Ugh, this is the absolute worst. Beginner or not.

FWIW, I encounter know-it-alls far more often than "creeps". Most of what I've dealt with is clinginess, I don't have immediate recall of any incidents of inappropriate touching (so have likely been lucky). Sometimes a new lead will put his hand on my waist (in frame), I will move it up to the correct spot higher up on my back.

This probably isn't terribly insightful but I don't think you owe them anything other than being polite. You could maybe try to point them to other beginner friendly dancers to encourage them mingle instead of fixating on you. Still, if all you said was "sorry, I'd like to dance with some other people tonight, too" or something like it then any damage to fragile egos is on the people possessing them.

Thanks. I actually like the suggestion about directly stating/suggesting we should dance with other people, will keep that one in my back pocket.

 

[open_mind]

Does the reverse apply? I had a situation where I was at a social with DH but he only knew 2 dances. One guy who was visiting was dancing by himself, as the rest were doing a set of dances he didn't know. So I asked would he like to dance together, and we did. The next dance in the set he also didn't know.... so we kept dancing together until there was a dance he knew. But then he asked to dance that with me as well (it was a Tango, which DH still hasn't learnt yet) and then we just kept on dancing until there was one I could dance with DH. We maybe did....5 in a row?

Anyway I see your point, Swingingslone, but your situation was different. If he appears to be skilled dancer, 3rd dance in a row makes me question his intent. Maybe it’s just me.

 

[David_In_CA]

Still, if all you said was "sorry, I'd like to dance with some other people tonight, too" or something like it then any damage to fragile egos is on the people possessing them.

The two ways I get out of an extended conversation, are to say, "It's been great catching up! I think I'm going to go dance this one", when a new song comes on, or invite the other person to dance, and then say, "thanks!" and walk in a different direction after the dance.

 

[VronskyWasSoVain]

On social awareness: I understand it can be difficult for guys, but if a girl likes you, she for sure will let you know

Big kudos to this. As a guy who has had a ton of personal experience as well as observing other guys' experiences, this is so true. We live in a culture where the man feels like he has to be the aggressor, even if its not welcomed and there's that whole thing about how a woman's natural "submissive instincts" will kick in when a man is aggressively pursuing her and she will fall for him. In real life and in nature, it's the women who actually do the choosing and it's men who are the peacock so to speak.

Men just need to seek to be their best selves and politely introduce himself to women and let the women come to him. THEN he does the pursuing.

Not trying to preach here. I only learned the above after many painful experiences.