The tao of the telemark

cornutt

Forum Master
This Monday, I finally admitted it to myself: every telemark I have ever done has been crap. Am partner and I are working on a routine in which we have a closed telemark and two telemarks from shadow position. No matter which one, whenever I've done one, nine times out of ten, what I lead with the first step places my partner in my way, and I'm struggling to try to go around her.

So we spent a bunch of time on it in the lesson this week. We improved the closed telemark a lot, but now I'm trying to understand and internalize what I did... As I understand it, as I transfer weight to the left foot on step 1, I need to let the foot pivot on the ball of the foot, in order to get in position and for her to perceive the lead to do the heel turn. (This is presuming that I've properly executed the CBM through the first step.) My second challenge is trying to figure out what path my right leg should be taking on my second step, since it has to get over to the position on the other side of my partner, the position where her rotation is taking her to face (to simplify things a bit). I've also been told that I need to delay rise here, because if I don't I fall backwards (down LOD) as I try to execute this. End of second step is then commence to rise, and shift to PP. Third step is basically a step in promenade.

It's still kind of klunky. I can more or less lead it such that my partner indeed understands that she is to do the heel turn, but our head and body positions are all wrong and we wind up killing the momentum, which leaves me still struggling to get the chicken to the other side of the road. If I can remember about the darned delayed rise, it's better and at least I don't fall off of my foot.

We just got to the shadow telemarks before the end. I understand that my job on the first step is a lot more to lead her to move rather than move myself. But that still seems like it leaves her in my way, especially if we need to end still in shadow (as in, we're going to do a second one).
I'm not actually sure what questions to ask... does any of this make any sense?
 
....No matter which one, whenever I've done one, nine times out of ten, what I lead with the first step places my partner in my way, and I'm struggling to try to go around her.
Disclaimer - I dance Standard, not Smooth!
Maybe she is causing the issue? Maybe she isn't allowing room for you to step around her and that is why you can't. I think of it as the man stepping either side of my feet, like a bottle opener on a beer bottle. Then his rise "pops the top" which causes the heel turn. The is a lot of "wind up" for the lady before the pop - if there isn't enough, no way he can get around. Just my perspective. It will be interesting to see what the others say.
 
... a closed telemark and two telemarks from shadow position. ... to PP. Third step is basically a step in promenade. ...
... does any of this make any sense?

Some confusion reading this. First, I thought only standard had telemarks, and standard does not have shadow position. So, obviously I'm not informed. Second, why PP if it is a closed tele? Closed tele ends in closed. You doing smooth or standard? (I only do standard.)

Some of the rest of what you wrote does make sense. Enough angular momentum with the CBM going into the heel turn to allow swinging around, delaying rise until the first quick (how we do it anyway).

I want to learn more of the telemarks. So keep going with this thread. :)
 
Some confusion reading this. First, I thought only standard had telemarks, and standard does not have shadow position. So, obviously I'm not informed. Second, why PP if it is a closed tele? Closed tele ends in closed. You doing smooth or standard? (I only do standard.)

I read this as telemarks in closed position and in shadow position, both with the open ending to PP. There are definitely telemarks in Smooth.
 
If the telemark finishes in PP, it is referred to as an open telemark.


But just in case the OP actually did mean a closed telemark, here:

 
I skied telemark long before I ever did ballroom and I do not see a connection in the two actions, especially not the lady's backward movement.

The only connection I see is telemark is a challenging style of skiing and the telemark is a challenging ballroom figure. And both turn, often quite a lot. The Telemark Turn in skiing is characterized by one knee down near the other leg's ankle, not something you see in ballroom in any figure, in standard anyway. I would not be surprised if smooth had that.
 
We improved the closed telemark a lot, but now I'm trying to understand and internalize what I did... As I understand it, as I transfer weight to the left foot on step 1, I need to let the foot pivot on the ball of the foot, in order to get in position and for her to perceive the lead to do the heel turn. (This is presuming that I've properly executed the CBM through the first step.) My second challenge is trying to figure out what path my right leg should be taking on my second step, since it has to get over to the position on the other side of my partner, the position where her rotation is taking her to face (to simplify things a bit). I've also been told that I need to delay rise here, because if I don't I fall backwards (down LOD) as I try to execute this. End of second step is then commence to rise, and shift to PP. Third step is basically a step in promenade.

Closed telemark ends OP, so you are probably talking about open telemark.
Anyway, these might be of help for you

https://www.ballroomgenie.com/figures/foxtrot/open-telemark/zhiratkov-novozhilova/
https://www.ballroomgenie.com/figures/foxtrot/telemark/zhiratkov-novozhilova/

Closed telemark is harder, also recently it's danced a bit different than I learned it in my BR days, with more usage of momentum, more shaping, lady turning the head to the right etc. Feels however more interesting this way
Hard to help this way, but I'm not getting the sentence about delaying the rise - when lady is doing the heel turn, rise is relatively fast (depending on personal preference, but some dancers actually don't bend much the left leg during 1st step)
 

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