the things they dont teach you at FIRST

[fascination]

the longer I dance the more I realize that the stuff they taught me when I walked in the door bears no resemblance to what I'm supposed to look like on the dance floor....and while I totally understand that most of it is neccessary to keep us from running back out the door and having the dance studio close up and become a dental office, I find a few of these habits hard to break and most annoying and am wondering if any of you have the same experience and about which dances/steps etc....

for me the hardest 2 things thing to "un-learn" are:
1) when we first wanted to learn swing they taught us the jitterbug w/a big first step....do ya see where I'm goin' here? Now here I am trying to do "little, little, big"....sheesh

and

2) the cha cha chas? i've been dancing for a year and this week I get shown how to do those puppies on my toes and by swishing my knees then pushing off....a whole new dance man


did I mention I dance standard and smooth ?

 

[cornutt]

One I've had a recent struggle with is bolero. When I first learned it, they taught the basic motion as a very linear motion, kind of like cha-cha: sway to the left, rock back, sway to the right, rock forward. I now know that the real way to do it involves a lot (did I mention a lot?) of body rotation and more of a curving motion that is considerably less symmetrical. Took me a couple of months to get the hang of it. My instructor now says that she's going to start teaching it that way from the beginning, since she's had several other students who learned the simplified way and then had trouble changing over.

 

[Twilight_Elena]

As a going-to-be dance teacher, I feel obliged to chime in.
Many times I ask stuff from my teacher and she says "don't push me, I can't tell you right now". She has a very good point. Learning is a progressive thing. You learn some things, then you build up on them. Sometimes you have to do something wrong in order to get used to the feeling, and then learn the right way. When in highschool, I remember that at first they taught us how to solve some equations without considering the necessary restrictions, because they wanted us to first learn how to solve equations and then proceed to taking other things into consideration. If you showed our equations to a math guy, he'd say "this is all wrong." But we couldn't have learnt it right straight away. See, progress.
Sometimes you have to learn something incomplete or even somewhat wrong to get the idea, and then fix it along the way. if students could learn the correct way of doing the chacha chasse from the very beginning, trust me, we would be teaching it full on. But it's not possible. I say it again. Progress is gradual. You can't do all the cool stuff from the beginning. And usually the cool stuff are a result of impeccable technique.

Twilight Elena

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

the longer I dance the more I realize that the stuff they taught me when I walked in the door bears no resemblance to what I'm supposed to look like on the dance floor....and while I totally understand that most of it is neccessary to keep us from running back out the door and having the dance studio close up and become a dental office, I find a few of these habits hard to break and most annoying and am wondering if any of you have the same experience and about which dances/steps etc....

I know what you're talking about. For me one of the hardest things is to get body contact when I am dancing with my husband. It is just not working out with the two of us. Cuban motion was something I had trouble learning from the beginning and when I was shown a more advanced way to do it, it made more sense. Promenade position in smooth became so different. There were other little things as well, but I don't remember right now, so I guess it was not that hard to fix those.

P.S. I dance American style - smooth and rhythm.

 

[fascination]

One I've had a recent struggle with is bolero. When I first learned it, they taught the basic motion as a very linear motion, kind of like cha-cha: sway to the left, rock back, sway to the right, rock forward. I now know that the real way to do it involves a lot (did I mention a lot?) of body rotation and more of a curving motion that is considerably less symmetrical. Took me a couple of months to get the hang of it. My instructor now says that she's going to start teaching it that way from the beginning, since she's had several other students who learned the simplified way and then had trouble changing over.

now that one, thank goodness I was spared b/c I didnt have much bolero exposure until after learning CBM

 

[fascination]

As a going-to-be dance teacher, I feel obliged to chime in.
Many times I ask stuff from my teacher and she says "don't push me, I can't tell you right now". She has a very good point. Learning is a progressive thing. You learn some things, then you build up on them. Sometimes you have to do something wrong in order to get used to the feeling, and then learn the right way. When in highschool, I remember that at first they taught us how to solve some equations without considering the necessary restrictions, because they wanted us to first learn how to solve equations and then proceed to taking other things into consideration. If you showed our equations to a math guy, he'd say "this is all wrong." But we couldn't have learnt it right straight away. See, progress.
Sometimes you have to learn something incomplete or even somewhat wrong to get the idea, and then fix it along the way. if students could learn the correct way of doing the chacha chasse from the very beginning, trust me, we would be teaching it full on. But it's not possible. I say it again. Progress is gradual. You can't do all the cool stuff from the beginning. And usually the cool stuff are a result of impeccable technique.

Twilight Elena

I agree on most things....but some are just so counter to the initial movement that it is really hard to re-train...and I understand that many folks, as I said in my OP would head for the door if everything were taught that way initially...I can whine a little cant i?

 

[standardgirl]

When I first took a class in standard, I have already been socially dancing smooth and rhythm for 3 months. I was "all over my teacher" when I danced standard with him, and I had no shape. As a result, I was told to really "lean back" onto my teacher's right arm. I was told to image a pillow in the man's right hand and "sleep" there.

A few months later, my teacher started to complain about me being back weighted......dah, wasn't that what you told me to do! But anyways, it took me a while to break the old habit and to be on my own feet. (Although from time to time, I still come off my own feet......)


Another thing is about following. When I first started dancing, I was told to follow, to feel it with my body, etc. For a long, long time, that's all I was able to do and I actually become pretty good at it, and had good results with it. Now, it's only later on, I started to realize that I don't own my dancing and that my level of dancing is completely determined by my partner's dance skills. I have started to work on being more "powerful." Basically, just learning to know what I want to show, and how I will show it. Wish they had taught me this from the beginning. My feeling is that if you started dancing am/am, you are less likely to be in the problem, but for a lot of pro/am girls, this does seem to be a huge thing.

 

[caityrosey]

We're really focusing on producing movement with the core right now...this is so important and I do wish I had learned this way to start...however I wonder if it would have held my interest early on when all I wanted to know was steps...

 

[Sagitta]

We're really focusing on producing movement with the core right now...this is so important and I do wish I had learned this way to start...however I wonder if it would have held my interest early on when all I wanted to know was steps...

Everyone has difficulty with that and I don't see any way around it. I always talk and show it, but almost everyone does the steps first and then suddenly realise the diference when they get it.

 

[diputs]

Many times I ask stuff from my teacher and she says "don't push me, I can't tell you right now".

If a teacher said this to me, I would find a different teacher.

I understand progression based training. But if I have reached the point where I am able to ask the question in an attempt to clarify my dancing, then I am ready for the answer. I may not understand the answer at that moment, but having the answer gives me goals to reach.

If the teacher does not want to answer the question to the entire class, I understand this. I have had conversations with the teacher in group classes, to help clarify something.

Maybe I am unique in the way that I learn. I listen to the teacher. Try to understand what they are telling me. Ask some questions, then reteach myself the lesson. This is the ah-ha moment. Unitl I am able to reteach myself what I have learned, I have not really learned.

 

[gracie]

As a going-to-be dance teacher, I feel obliged to chime in.
Many times I ask stuff from my teacher and she says "don't push me, I can't tell you right now". She has a very good point. Learning is a progressive thing. You learn some things, then you build up on them. Sometimes you have to do something wrong in order to get used to the feeling, and then learn the right way. When in highschool, I remember that at first they taught us how to solve some equations without considering the necessary restrictions, because they wanted us to first learn how to solve equations and then proceed to taking other things into consideration. If you showed our equations to a math guy, he'd say "this is all wrong." But we couldn't have learnt it right straight away. See, progress.
Sometimes you have to learn something incomplete or even somewhat wrong to get the idea, and then fix it along the way. if students could learn the correct way of doing the chacha chasse from the very beginning, trust me, we would be teaching it full on. But it's not possible. I say it again. Progress is gradual. You can't do all the cool stuff from the beginning. And usually the cool stuff are a result of impeccable technique.

Twilight Elena

So true TE. I sometimes wonder how the instructors watch you dance knowing all the little things they will have to fix as time goes on. And how do they decide what to concentrate on. And how can they stand having to say the same thing over and over! I could never be an instructor- what patience they have. I do think that proper footwork in all styles is important to be taught from the beginning. I am having to correct alot of that right now. On the other hand, I watched a beginner Latin group lesson (first) the other night where the instructor tried to teach all the correct footwork in great detail. In this group where most of the individuals will be social BR or club dancers, well- it may have discouraged some of them as Fascination said.

 

[Shooshoo]

Yeah, same problem, especially the cuban motion while doing the cha cha. I'm never sure how it's supposed to be done. Many times I feel my instructor is not consistent of what he tells me how to do it and then when I see professionals do it, it looks different. It can be frustrating, but since I do not compete nor perform I'm not bothering myself too much about it. If I do one day, guess I'll have to think about it more or find other instructors to get it right.

 

[Twilight_Elena]

If a teacher said this to me, I would find a different teacher.

I understand progression based training. But if I have reached the point where I am able to ask the question in an attempt to clarify my dancing, then I am ready for the answer. I may not understand the answer at that moment, but having the answer gives me goals to reach.

If the teacher does not want to answer the question to the entire class, I understand this. I have had conversations with the teacher in group classes, to help clarify something.

Maybe I am unique in the way that I learn. I listen to the teacher. Try to understand what they are telling me. Ask some questions, then reteach myself the lesson. This is the ah-ha moment. Unitl I am able to reteach myself what I have learned, I have not really learned.

I ask a lot of questions. It's the way I learn. But if she answered all my questions, I'd be trying to do 20 things I shouldn't have learnt so early on all together, when my head should be focused in other things. Already she has admitted into telling more than she usually tells students.
Let's take a crude example: the Cha Cha Lockstep. I learnt it very early on, when I first learnt the second chacha basic when you do the chasse straight forward and backwards. I think everyone does. Now, the lockstep is much easier if you rotate your hips. But if she had told me that at point zero, I would have desperately tried to do it at once and have would succeeded nothing at all, possibly would have messed up with very basic technique too, because there's a time for everything and hip rotation wasn't yet due.
We're trying to avoid head clutter.

Twilight Elena

 

[gusmahler]

As a beginner, I understand what you mean. I'm now on my 12th week of lessons in ChaCha, supposedly putting me at the "Intermediate 2" level. Yet the words "cuban motion" have never left the teacher's mouth. And she only taught one small bit of arm styling for the shoulder check. But the females do that move so awkwardly. It was an amazing contrast watching an advanced female student doing private lessons afterwards, her arm styling seemed so much more natural.

But I guess that at our level, we have enough to think about with just the steps to worry about stuff like arm styling and proper cuban motion.

 

[alemana]

it should also depend on your dancing goals.

if you were previously a social dancer who decides to train for competition, i think the focus on correct (at your level) technique should be more than if you are unsure about what you want to accomplish, or if you are already sure you don't want to compete. ballroom studios, especially franchises, want to make money, and they make money by keeping folks coming back. that means not creating frustrated beginners who feel they'll never get it right (which, not unironically, is absolutely true, regardless of what level they eventually achieve!)