bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
Is this the Cluedo version of tango? Colonel Mustard with the Housemaid in the Billiard Room?
"The Walk," in AT
- Thread starter Ampster
- Start date
Is this the Cluedo version of tango? Colonel Mustard with the Housemaid in the Billiard Room?
Light Sleeper
New Member
:uplaugh:
Love your post, Me! You and Heather have it down right: practice your walk a few minutes a day and Heather's championing of visualisation is the best advice I can think of to give aspiring tango dancers.
I also think the reason that some folk are 'professional class go-ers' is part of the 'consumer' ethic - you pay for something and you get exactly what you want. Also, some people do it for a social thing with no real desire to do tango technique. Also, some folk apply learning patterns from other dances which aren't appropriate to tango. Anyhoo.
You put me in mind of a great line from American Beauty, "Never underestimate the power of denial"
kieronneedscake
New Member
So what does a good tango walk give you? Some of the observations posted above suggest quite rightly that a good walk is the product of a lot of practice, which may inherently develop many other skills.
For my part, a better walk has given me stability and power. It has liberated me in terms of fast and slow movement and makes my partners feel much more secure in what I do.
A practice partner said something interesting to me last night. She described my motion as "like water", "so smooth". Is this a good thing, or is a bit of rough with the smooth more conducive to the perfect dance?
For my part, a better walk has given me stability and power. It has liberated me in terms of fast and slow movement and makes my partners feel much more secure in what I do.
A practice partner said something interesting to me last night. She described my motion as "like water", "so smooth". Is this a good thing, or is a bit of rough with the smooth more conducive to the perfect dance?
Peaches
Well-Known Member
I don't know that it's the same thing, though. Sure, when you can "get into character" for the span of a class, it can be made interesting. But I don't see how that exercise, with it's heaps of fun and loads of laughter, is really translate-able to a milonga. Which isn't to bash the method--I think it's great--or say that putting a character or attitude into walking/dancing in a milonga is a bad thing. I'm just saying that if people are only shown some basic walking without some sort of "fun" and "interesting" figure to play with--even if they can't really do it right--then...well...it can become boring. Not for everyone, necessarily. But it's a chance.
Perhaps I'm just taking things personally, but... I'll come right out and say that I'm very easily bored. It's not just "trying to draw the critical eye away from [my]self." It's genuinely getting bored. I've got a limited attention span, after which time continuing to hammer away at something like...well, walking...is counterproductive. It's just me. I need a bit of variety and excitement. Carrot + stick; chocolate + vegetables. If I'm staring down an hour of nothing but working on walking, walking and more walking...I'll tell you this, I won't be staring it down...I'll be finding another teacher. End of story. (Well, for regular private lessons, at least. For a workshop or a visiting teacher, I use different standards.)
As for the workshops and working on basics all over again...your assessment seems awfully harsh. It's like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation you've pigeon-holed these people into. They're finally taking a "basics" class and enjoying it and getting something out of it and being motivated to go back and work on "basics" (which you seem to make clear that they should have done before), and you bash them for not having seen the light sooner. I don't get it. Perhaps I've missed something. But it just seems to me that their excitement over basic walking would be a good thing, not something to make fun of them for. (Not saying you do it to their face, but still.)
And, like I said, perhaps I'm just taking this waaaaay too personally.
Joy In Motion
Active Member
Originally Posted by Peaches
Oh...and I'm very guilty of not having my tango face on. I caught myself this past weekend grinning, with my tongue stuck out a bit. Not a pretty tango face.
And I've been known to...gasp!...burst out laughing in the middle of things. (Sometimes, when a lead is obviously playing, I can't help it!)
"Spontenaity, sincerity and enjoyment" - amen to that! I think the "tango face" should be a natural expression of how you feel inside. When a partner is very playful with the music, sometimes I break into a smile and even giggle. There is one partner in particular who really keys in to the music and makes me laugh every time, and he told me he likes to hear me laugh because it shows him that I recognize the way he is playing with the music and that I have a pleasant response to it. I think it is a great gift to give your partner to naturally show how their connection and their musicality makes you feel. I think holding back that expression for me would take away from my enjoyment. And I personally like to watch people that have a personality on the dance floor instead of looking like they are trying to perform or be too serious. So amen to spontaneous smiles and giggles on the dance floor!
If by "rough" you mean "staccato", I'd say it depends on the music. Other than that, I can't think of any definition of "rough" that would be more desirable than smooth.
I've discovered both as a teacher and a student that there's a fine line between moving on too soon and overworking something. The hard part of teaching more than one person/couple at a time, is that not everyone hits that line at the same time.
And its made more awkward by the fact that some people are actually making progress (and could benefit from continuing to work it) but are getting bored and want to move on, vs other people who are like a pit bull with a bone on the thing but need to give it a rest because its becoming counterproductive.
When I was working with a figure skating coach, she often recognized that a move we were working was actually getting worse and we needed to leave it for the day even though I was still thinking "I've almost got it!" and wanting to keep at it.
She was experienced enough to know when to let it go and come back to it, where someone else might have simply taken their cue from my "keep trying" attitude even though more problems were surfacing that hadn't been an issue a little while earlier. Its easy to tell when the student WANTS to let it go and move on. Its much harder to tell when the student who wants to keep going NEEDS to move on.
I've been in classes where I think the teacher has overworked a move and needed to either add something to it, or move on to something else. Usually its because the teacher hasn't had a chance to check everyone yet so we keep doing it over and over while she tries to get to everyone. I suppose that's better than moving too fast, but its still annoying to do the same exercise or step for that long.
As a teacher, I can usually tell when its time to let something go because the people are getting frustrated or bored. What's harder is doing what my skating coach did - being able to tell its time to move on even when the students want to keep at it, or when to keep at it even though they aren't realizing that they are benefitting from it.
A good teacher has to look beyond the students' "emotion of the immediate moment" which is not always a good barometer of progress during a lesson. Sometimes students give up too soon. Sometimes they don't know when to quit.
But when the teacher is good, by the END of the lesson, the student feels good about the overall work & accomplishment. They LEAVE the lesson feeling good about it. They are glad the teacher either pushed them to keep trying when they were frustrated, or moved on when they did. But often the eventual reaction at the end of the lesson is not the immediate reaction the student has at the time the teacher makes the decision.
bjp22tango
Active Member
Humans, in general, like to skip the basics and jump ahead to the flashy stuff.
As Americans, specifically, we seem to need instant gratification.
It takes a while to figure out that there are reasons we need to learn the basics of reading, math, basketball, knitting, Swing, AT before the "fun stuff" works well. Then the lights come on.
Those who want instant gratification will stay at their level of incompetence, drop off and find something else to jump into the middle of; the ones willing to put a liitle work in will go back to the basics and learn enough to be proficient; the ones who fall in love with whatever they are learning will go back to the basics and submerse themselves in every facet of it.
I would guess that most people on Dance-Forums.com fall into the latter category. However, you are dancing with the other two categories at Milongas, thus your frustration level.
As Americans, specifically, we seem to need instant gratification.
It takes a while to figure out that there are reasons we need to learn the basics of reading, math, basketball, knitting, Swing, AT before the "fun stuff" works well. Then the lights come on.
Those who want instant gratification will stay at their level of incompetence, drop off and find something else to jump into the middle of; the ones willing to put a liitle work in will go back to the basics and learn enough to be proficient; the ones who fall in love with whatever they are learning will go back to the basics and submerse themselves in every facet of it.
I would guess that most people on Dance-Forums.com fall into the latter category. However, you are dancing with the other two categories at Milongas, thus your frustration level.
bordertangoman
Well-Known Member
In my classes whatever I'm teaching or whatever I say I'm teaching in fact what I am teaching is technique. No-one spent hours teaching me how to walk; just an emphasis of keeping my weight forward. My walk came good after two years when my teacher said I was really grounded. I believe this groundedness comes from good balance and muscle tone so I use a couple of exercises which at least show people how the energy should come out of the floor. So to avoid boredom i show people moves that will keep them interested and work on the underlying technique: posture, axis, balance, connection, invitation, foot placement etc
Subsequently in private classes different teachers have said my weight is too far forward and too far back. So I ignore them as long as it works; (there are other things I can improve)and I have been complimented on being one of the most grounded dancers around.
Light Sleeper
New Member
Excellent post, bjp. I would add 'British' to 'Americans' too - not wanting to disrespect - I'm British and I think the kind of consumer cultures we come from can foster these kinds of approaches: ie, get bored b/c you're not progressing as quick as you'd like drop out or just get 'good enough' to enjoy the social side. Also, as you said, it's basic human nature to look for instant gratification. It's interesting as I've been reading about our hunter-gatherer forebears and I still reckon that we easily fall back on this heritage. We're not meant to be sophisticated urbanites! Anyway, I digress.
the trouble with tango is that the walk takes years to get get good at. i went to a milonga at the weekend and there was only one person ( a guy) doing the walk. I was trying to, whether I achieved it is hard to say as I had no-one to ask. I felt like I was really extending but was I? And if I was, was it smooth etc?
My feeling is that tango is pretty unique in that the 'base' of tango - walking - takes so long to refine.... rather than 'flashy stuff'.
Peaches
Well-Known Member
Exactly!!!
Heather2007
New Member
Some people when they are in therapy respond in all ways: tears, laughter, silence, anger. The laughter in my class was similar. See:
Exactly that. It was their own self-discovery of their inner selves/ability a real sense of liberating their inner selves and allowing themselves not so much as being an "other" but the "other" which they really are. And of course, as in all principles of my teaching (past & present) I use humour/crack jokes (mainly about myself) in order to relax and out of that relaxation comes the "laughter". Out of that laughter, comes the confidence. With that confidence is the abilty to translate in what ever fashion you choose. With some guys I get so into character I almost become hypnotic. One guy (I know well) and I were dancing at the end, we continued to hold onto each other a good few seconds after the song. He said later at that point he was closing his eyes and willing himself back into himself. "Aaah, I could feel you were out of yourself and into "another", I stated. "Absolutely," he replied. I could feel he was a bit dazed so I sat with him awhile until he was back in himself and ready to dance with another.
Of course it is not something that everybody will want to experience - just having a good dance is enough. Of course. But for those that say they want to/or those that I can see would want to - then - then I show them how to.
Of course not. But allow me to reiterate: my, what I call: teaching/using Method Tango (getting into character etc.) I know is not for all and so when I explain it or teach it, it is the freedom of those to either use it or lose it C'est ca.
Heather2007
New Member
Some people when they are in therapy respond in all ways: tears, laughter, silence, anger. The laughter in my class was similar. See:
Exactly that. It was their own self-discovery of their inner selves/ability a real sense of liberating their inner selves and allowing themselves not so much as being an "other" but the "other" which they really are. And of course, as in all principles of my teaching (past & present) I use humour/crack jokes (mainly about myself) in order to relax and out of that relaxation comes the "laughter". Out of that laughter, comes the confidence. With that confidence is the abilty to translate in what ever fashion you choose. With some guys I get so into character I almost become hypnotic. One guy (I know well) and I were dancing at the end, we continued to hold onto each other a good few seconds after the song. He said later at that point he was closing his eyes and willing himself back into himself. "Aaah, I could feel you were out of yourself and into "another", I stated. "Absolutely," he replied. I could feel he was a bit dazed so I sat with him awhile until he was back in himself and ready to dance with another.
Of course it is not something that everybody will want to experience - just having a good dance is enough. Of course. But for those that say they want to/or those that I can see would want to - then - then I show them how to.
Of course not. But allow me to reiterate: my, what I call: teaching/using Method Tango (getting into character etc.) I know is not for all and so when I explain it or teach it, it is the freedom of those to either use it or lose it C'est ca.
]
Heather2007
New Member
I wish I could show you and it's going to be too hard to describe. But there are 2 guys (one Brazilian/the other British) who have this amazing way of walking. Which I've tried to copy but fail allllll the time - and plus I guess it looks a bit too masculine - but it is s*xy as hell. When I see them approaching, I can feel my smile growing, eyes widening and the imagination running riot. An entire film LS with credits. Yum! And of course when they translate this cocky-cat-sleeking-stalking-swagger into their dance - whew!
Light Sleeper
New Member
Oooh!! to translate that walk into the dance must be something else! Most I can do (have to be in right frame of mind etc) for effect in the right venue is a hip-hoppy-cat-like stalk like Lyndsey Marshal's Cleopatra in Rome (remember my old avatar). Hee hee I got quite good at it... but I've never translated it into dancing - ha - this might be the key to getting 'the walk' I want