To Follow without Following

[bordertangoman]

I sure like to accept your charge, to make me sound smart.

Just learned a new expression (have been ignorant to it all along). Thanks!

a snarky put down would have been better.......I deserve it....I'll wait for Peaches...

 

[Zoopsia59]

Thank you. I haven't actively learned the embellishments. Some of them came naturally. When it happenned, I felt great.

You can spend some time actively learning and practicing embellishments that you see other followers doing, but the ones that come easily and naturally to you (and flow naturally with the step) will always be the best choice.

 

[Zoopsia59]

There are followers that seem to to there doing there own thing without any regard for what I lead.

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

 

[dchester]

double entendre intended????

you might like to read this...
http://lanuitblanche.wordpress.com/

I do think that an active follower is a more equal partner in the
dance. When I teach about leading and following I try to get my
students to see it as a means of communication. The more active the
follower, the more it becomes like a two-way discussion, and less like
a stream of directions. This means that the follower must speak up
enough to be heard, but not shout: her intention must be conveyed back
to the leader through the embrace, not just executed in her own body,
but she can’t be rigid and forceful (any more than a good leader would
be). On the flip side, the leader must be willing to hear what she’s
saying: he must respond to the change of the embrace the follower is
creating. In other words, he has to follow. We should have a term for
this sort of leader to match “active” following- how about a
“responsive” leader?

That said, I like active followers, but I have never heard anyone describe what that means. To me, an active follower is someone who occasionally decides that she wants to dance the music in a particular way, and leads her leader to do so. It’s not back-leading, it’s not
forced, it’s true leading. And I can’t imagine how hard it must be for
followers to figure out how to do that without being unpleasant, which
is why I think very few do it well. Certainly it’s not often taught.

Does anyone here know how "active leading" is different from back leading? It seems like in both cases, the follower leads, and the leader follows.

Also, why do people claim that active leading is "more equal" than not active leading?

The most common problem I run into with these "active followers" is that many of them have no concept of floorcraft, and it can make things look like I don't know about floorcraft. You can use a tighter embrace to try to contain them, but they don't like that, as it restricts their "expression of the music". Currently, the only solutions I have is to only dance with them when the floor is not crowded, or stay in the center.

 

[pwpulto]

doing their own thing or misunderstanding?

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

I don't think leaders can tell the difference. It just doesn't matter to the dance, it 's just a mental state of the follower, don't you think?

 

[dchester]

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

It's complicated. For me, the first time it happens with a given follower, I can't tell, but over time, as the tanda progresses, I often can determine the difference.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

When I lead, I feel it as my partner being no longer in connection with me, "going away", not waiting, not paying attention to the partnership. It is quite a distinct feeling.

 

[ant]

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" .

As an example a follower was doing, I lost count of the number of boleos, and I was not leading anything. Or I am moving with my chest in one direction and the follower is moving totally oblivious in the other direction. However this is thankfully rare.

This differs from the situation where I feel the follower has felt the lead and I believe because of a lack of confidence has not gone with that feeling. When this happens there is usually a pulling back in the followers body and an hesitation neither of which you would not expect based upon the rest of the dance you have had up until that point.

and followers who misunderstood the lead

I have rarely if ever had this feeling. Generally if a follower does not do what I expect they are still moving in a natural way based upon what I have led and more often than not they do something that is better that I thought they would do. However because it follows naturally from what I have led the dance still flows nicely

, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow

I am not sure how to read this bit but

When follows do there own thing I generally just stand there let them get on with it and when they finish walk on and pray for the end of the dance.

Where I feel follows have just missed the lead I try to recover the situation as best I can which is generally not a problem, as you say you just walk through it. Then take down what I thought I might lead a notch or two.

Where the follow has hestitated but I feel she has felt the lead I do my best not to allow her to get stressed by leading things I know she she is comfortable doing. Sometimes a follow ask or comments on the hesitation and depending on what was said we may try it again together.

When the follow does things that I never expected I try to give here more room so she can do more of these things.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by dchester
Does anyone here know how "active leading" is different from back leading? It seems like in both cases, the follower leads, and the leader follows.

If I could use a simple example of say a leader not hearing the phrases in the music and the follower does. At the end of say the next few phrases the follower may show an intention to want to pause at the end of the phrases which the lead may or may not accept. I would call this active following without backleading.

 

[LadyLeader]

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

Number of unsynchronized steps x follower dancing level, followers reaction

If a experienced follower is accidentally doing her own thing there is only one or two steps not following the intention in my lead and a quiet Sorry! (It is actually fantastic how followers know this!)

If an experienced follower is doing sequencies on her own it has always been a sign of being bored by my simple movements. Durig their trip they giggle with sparkling eyes or there is black smoke coming from their eyes and the steps are aggressive.

If I am not too tired and if I have capacity to meet her level I put some more complexity in the coming songs and we usually work it out that way.

 

[LadyLeader]

I started to lead because I liked it and if I want to follow I let someone to lead me. I think people around me know that so I am strictly leading when in that position, no arguing about leading during a song.

However I want active followers who have their own mental platform, strong integrity and she (good male followers are few here) shares same kind of musicality and interest for movements with me. She do not like strolling around but I need to do a CAMINATA - she knows what she wants!

 

[LoveTango]

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

Your question/comment gets us thinking, Zoops.

 

[Angel HI]

I have always wondered how leaders can tell the difference between followers who are "doing their own thing" and followers who misunderstood the lead, but stepped confidently (as they should) with their follow.

Oh! Believe me, it's very obvious. :doh:

 

[newbie]

I probably didn't describe this very well.

The way you describe it, your tango has become easier since you started to ignore the lead. True, it is easier, and it is the same for us leaders, tango is easier without a follower.

 

[bordertangoman]

The way you describe it, your tango has become easier since you started to ignore the lead. True, it is easier, and it is the same for us leaders, tango is easier without a follower.

i think its a very European thing for the leader to pay attention to the follower; the first Argentine ladies I danced with didnt move until you gave them a good shove ( with musicality of course). I think ignoring the follower is preferable. You either step where I lead or you get your toes trod on; they'll develop faster reaction times.