Top Teacher Awards and Ethics

[DanceMentor]

I can't count the number of times people said something like:
He always gets good marks because he brings so much money to the competition. Or it might be something about someone getting special privileges that others don't.

Now obviously any teacher or studio that brings a significant amount of business to a competition worked hard for their rewards. But is the system setup to allow people to dominate in a way that makes it difficult for others to find their place?

(I offer no opinion myself, but this is something that I hear spoken about behind the scenes frequently, and would love to see what others think.)

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I'm betting the judges aren't even told how many entries or how much money any particular instructor brings to the competition.

 

[fascination]

I have seen many pros who have brought jillions of students to a comp and won top teacher with dancers none of whom were particularly talented, and I do not see those students getting a break in their marks...my experience is that that sort of thing is only said about talented pros with talented students, by folks who are not beating them. I have been with two pros who have been top teachers at various comps and of course my current pro has been a top dancesport pro consistantly...I have been with them when they have brought alot of students and when they have brought only me, and I have had excellent comps and comps when I've gotten my butt dusted....while I think that one can have a panel that is or isn't a good panel for them...and comps where the balance of judges are or aren't inclined toward appreciating the teaching merits of one pro or another, on balance, over the course of a year, I think it pretty much all evens out....and most of that talk is time better spent practicing....as one judge once told me after a time like that in my life; "dance so well that if they don't mark you they look bad"...and, one of my favorite quotes by Bob Powers goes something like this: "if it is rigged when you lose it could be rigged when you win...so shut up and work harder"

 

[3wishes]

I too have danced with my pro when everybody, and i mean everybody competed, I've danced with him when it was only me. His interest was and remains in our experience - second interest is the marks which formulates the lesson plans. We've done well and we've done...not so well - meaning more work. It was and remains, that it is not about the $$ brought into a competition or event as much as the student strecthing themselves with his instruction to be "that" dancer. He gave all of himself to each student, lessons, coachings as he also does when only one student goes. Sometimes there are hundreds of entries sometimes there is 10 entries only. He has been surprised when winning "top" anything as he is more devoted to getting his students to be the best they can be, and he has won top teacher and top studio several times. He does not get special anythings, nor is there any $$ signs or signals given to any competition, organizer or otherwise. He laughs when he hears this very same thing. And believe me, we've all (students included on our part) heard this as well.

 

[fascination]

I suspect my pro cares to have good students, I suspect he is happy to win and to make some extra coin...I really don't know his motives or care...it's all good...my only point, in regard to the OP is that I don't particularly think that this particular issue is at the bottom of what may or may not at times, skew results....it may get me a nice room in the hotel and perhaps sometimes a fruit basket, or a free drink, or a hundred dollar voucher...but that's about it

 

[JANATHOME]

I am confused. I always thought that the top teacher award was based on entires, or at least placement of students... So I thought of course the teacher with the most students will be the top teacher, and never thought that there is anything wrong with this. I mean the pro is bringing a lot of money/entry fees into the comp.

 

[DanceMentor]

Maybe I just around with too many "haters". Just kidding.
I can see there is strong support for their professionals by their students here at dance forums, and I'm sure rightly so.

 

[danceronice]

For "top teacher" it's a numbers game, just like Top Student (unless they set up the points in such a way placing REALLY matters and level does, too) where it has nothing to do with skill and just how many points you can rack up.

And while I think there is SOME advantage to having a lot of students with a lot of entries, simply because the more you're on the floor the more the judges look at you, I don't think there's usually a concerted plan to "He makes us lots of money, give his students good marks." (I only say "usually" because it's not IMPOSSIBLE.)

 

[DanceMentor]

Now from an economic standpoint, I suppose it could be argued that a top teacher has an automatic financial superiority, especially if they are repeatedly winning these awards. Therefore it makes it easier to create a business model that has a much healthier balance sheet than most everyone else. It's somewhat of a reverse taxation. The more you make, the greater percentage you receive. So on paper, their cost per entry is much less, especially in light of the very significant cash prizes.

(I don't mean to upset anyone here. I am just stating the argument and seeing what people say about this. Clearly there is another side to this.)

 

[latingal]

I think the political ramification becomes judges who are also competition organizers judging top teacher pro-am couples? From a comp organizer's point of view, you'd like to have pros who bring a lot of entries in.

That being said, I think many organizer/judges are fair in their judging. There may be a few that are not, but what can you do but be the best you can be and enjoy your dancing for your own reasons.

 

[DanceMentor]

I think the political ramification becomes judges who are also competition organizers judging top teacher pro-am couples? From a comp organizer's point of view, you'd like to have pros who bring a lot of entries in.

That being said, I think many organizer/judges are fair in their judging. There may be a few that are not, but what can you do but be the best you can be and enjoy your dancing for your own reasons.

I agree that judging is very good overall, and like anywhere there are a few bad apples, but the system as a whole is quite fair.

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

IMV, the top teacher/student thing is so heavily skewed towards quantity instead of quality that if a teacher has enough entries, it doesn't even matter how they place. Same goes for students going for top student award. If they have enough entries, it doesn't even matter how they place in them.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Now from an economic standpoint, I suppose it could be argued that a top teacher has an automatic financial superiority, especially if they are repeatedly winning these awards. Therefore it makes it easier to create a business model that has a much healthier balance sheet than most everyone else. It's somewhat of a reverse taxation. The more you make, the greater percentage you receive. So on paper, their cost per entry is much less, especially in light of the very significant cash prizes.

(I don't mean to upset anyone here. I am just stating the argument and seeing what people say about this. Clearly there is another side to this.)

From an economic perspective, what you say is correct. However, I'd point out that from an economic perspective, the top teacher system essentially acts as a volume discount. There's no particular reason why a volume discount is unreasonable or a bad thing.

And the economic impact of the "top teacher" system still doesn't have anything to do with the judging.

 

[DL]

I can't count the number of times people said something like:
He always gets good marks because he brings so much money to the competition. Or it might be something about someone getting special privileges that others don't.

Is there any specific and generally applicable economic incentive for organizers to rig top teacher awards?

 

[fascination]

IMV, the top teacher/student thing is so heavily skewed towards quantity instead of quality that if a teacher has enough entries, it doesn't even matter how they place. Same goes for students going for top student award. If they have enough entries, it doesn't even matter how they place in them.

except at ohio where ther is a limit to how much one can dance, so there it IS about placement a bit more