Top Teacher Awards

[flightco]

This really has morphed into many different directions; I am going to bring back some of the original points made.

This was never about Pros being worth what they earn, I and most here believe they could have earned much more if they put the effort and expense into a different career but they followed their heart and they are dance pros - I truly envy being able to do what you love for a living and I think most are worth every penny.

It is not about how much a pro makes at a comp. It was about the Top Teacher Award being an incentive that would lead some Pros to push their students beyond their financial means. Is there any pro here that does not feel this has happened? Not saying you do it, but that it is an incentive for the ethically weaker pros to take advantage of their students. Some here defending the pros said something about car dealers doing the same thing. I refuse to look at my pro like a car dealer.

I made the comment and I will expand on it that the light bulb came on and I realize the students are not the customer of the comp organizer. The Pro is their customer. We kept talking about the student paying the money, but from the organizers perspective that is not true. Their money comes from the Pro, not the student. We all need to realize, we are the Pro's customer and the Pro is the customer of the competition. As a comparison, I am buying a new lawn mower. I tried to contact the company with a question the local dealer could not answer. Took some sleuthing to find their number then was told I need to talk with the local dealer, didn't matter the dealer did not know the answer. Their attitude was the dealer is the one sending them the money, that is their customer. Do I like this? Not at all. Am I going to not buy what I think is the best value in a lawn mower because I don't like this? I am buying the lawn mower (I could go to another comp for the price of it) because it is the best lawn mower at the price for my needs.

I am sad that JnJ has taken this so personally. I have worked in the Columbus area and have spoken to people that know him and his studio, his reputation is flawless and I am sorry he felt the need to defend his practices. Once again (the Pro's and their defenders seem to keep missing this point) this is about less than scrupulous pros (not all pros who go to competitions ) pushing their students to spend more than they should and placing them in financial hardship. You can say they should know better and having seen this firsthand and several times, I can say that the emotion of dance (dance can bring tears to my eyes, I don't know why but sometimes it does) coupled with Rico Suave (who is the female version of Rico) telling you what a great dancer you are and you need to do more heats, more heats, more heats because you are so awesome and you need this, all the while just trying to pad their own pockets and not really caring about the student at all; probably one of the saddest things about ballroom dancing.

As to presenting the checks at the comp. I don't care how much money a pro makes, at the same time, I don't care how much a pro makes. I feel calling them up on stage and presenting these checks is really in your face to the students. Call them up for their dancing, call them up for the number of students they had who placed but if their is a cash award for bring the most students, I would prefer that was given out the same way the money was paid, send them a check. I started out at a franchise studio and at the Friday party they would always recognize the top teacher for the week (the one who gave the most lessons). There were many comments from students that they really didn't like this because it was really about how much money they spent.

In the end, it starts with our money and our choice to spend it how we see fit. Once the money is handed to someone else, it is their money and we have no say in how they use/spend/award etc. the money, it is now their money. Not sure why the point is so hard for others to see. Like I said, when customers are not present my company has awesome meetings and hands out huge cash awards in front of everyone, but never in front of customers because it would be off-putting to the customers. Not sure why the organizers do not see this.

 

[flightco]

Perhaps we should skip all placements and awards. I'm sure you all won't mind skipping your scholarship awards and championships. Heck let's skip single entry placements to. Let's all get together for 3 days, spend a bunch of money on travel, costumes, hair and make up, entries and dance around for 3 days 12 hours a day. W can all get a trophy as a welcome gift and then all go home. Who needs any type of award.

I don't believe this is who you are; I think you have taken comments that others have experienced and felt like it was directed at you; it wasn't but there is truth to what has been said, but directed not at you

 

[jump'n'jive]

If you want to talk about less then scrupulous pro's perhaps we can start a thread on that. Let's have an ethics thread. I have a whole slew of things mainly from coaches and organizers I would love to vent.


Just because one student is dancing a bunch of entries doesn't mean they are being financially strained. I think all good pros have an honest conversation about their students finances and what they can and can't afford to pay. I also think a lot of it has to do with the studio owner. It seems a lot our there are no better the. Selling vacuum cleaners when it comes to sales and dollars and cents.

This thread is about the legitimacy of top awards. Are they based on money, absolutely. But what isn't this day and age. Hell you can buy your own politician and create your own laws through lobbying.


But to a lot of pros and students if there is an award to be won then why not try to win it. Also students and other pros take notice of each other at events. We see the same pros dancing over and over again. I kind of like even if I am just spectating to see who had the most entries. I do not think it detracts from an evening event and I think the praise is awesome. Same goes for the DSS top 20 when they do it with students. I know all my ladies have loved going up there in front of a packed house.


A bad teacher is a bad teacher but don't punish others and take something away from everyone because of a few bad apples.


And flightco thanks for the kind words about me and our studio. We try to take the high road and be the best possible. Have we met before?

 

[flightco]

PM coming

 

[wooh]

Some of us do love to compete, and are still willing to pay the costs, BUT, most jobs don't pay that much AND give a bonus on top, at least mine doesn't.... If yours does, and covers all your expenses including your clothes and dog boarding and nanny costs, more power to you- good on you and all that, but having named 10 random professions, can't think of a single other one that does...

Once again, please feel free to tell us where every cent of your salary goes. Because many jobs don't pay enough to cover doing pro-am comps a few times a year, but apparently yours does. How is that a necessary part of your compensation? How many people have jobs that cover the costs of doing pro-am? I can name 10 random professions that do not. I can also name COUNTLESS people who think YOU make too much money to do what you do. But I'm sure you think your pay is either fair or not enough. Why should dance instructors have to defend any bonuses they get but you shouldn't have to defend how much you get paid?
If you have a job that requires you to travel on weekends, you make sure it pays enough to board your dog on weekends, pay for a babysitter. If you have a job that requires specific clothing, you make sure it pays enough to do so. If you're running your own business, as most instructors are, then making sure those costs are covered is part of setting your fees. If YOU were an independent contractor, you'd make sure your costs were covered or you wouldn't have a business for long.
And if you have a job with an incentive for sales, you're going to get bonuses. Heck, MANY professions have bonuses as part of the compensation structure. Sorry yours doesn't. If you feel you aren't paid properly in your profession, feel free to switch to becoming a dance instructor, and become one of the dance instructors obviously living in the lap of luxury. Of course, when they aren't swimming in their pool full of diamonds and cash, they also have to defend every cent they make from every source of income because of the demand for transparency. And then be criticized because they don't want their dog to starve and poop all over the house while they are away on business.

 

[fascination]

when I get my hair cut at a salon, the stylist tries to sell me a bunch of the product, whether I truly need it or not
when I go to a movie, I cannot bring my own snacks and the concessions are outrageous for a reason
sometimes, depending upon the dance instructor I pick, he may try to sell me on certain comps and amounts of heats

in all cases, I may being asked to consider something that isn't what I want....in all cases, I can choose

 

[IndyLady]

when they aren't swimming in their pool full of diamonds and cash

I knew it!!!!

when I get my hair cut at a salon, the stylist tries to sell me a bunch of the product, whether I truly need it or not
when I go to a movie, I cannot bring my own snacks and the concessions are outrageous for a reason
sometimes, depending upon the dance instructor I pick, he may try to sell me on certain comps and amounts of heats

in all cases, I may being asked to consider something that isn't what I want....in all cases, I can choose

LOL, I can can identify with every one of those scenarios. When I was a kid, my mother used to sneak in a bag of Twizzlers in her purse (that's probably a whole other discussion thread).

 

[flightco]

when I get my hair cut at a salon, the stylist tries to sell me a bunch of the product, whether I truly need it or not
when I go to a movie, I cannot bring my own snacks and the concessions are outrageous for a reason
sometimes, depending upon the dance instructor I pick, he may try to sell me on certain comps and amounts of heats

in all cases, I may being asked to consider something that isn't what I want....in all cases, I can choose

Are you living a fantasy (an instructors wording of PRO/AM) with your stylist or the concession stand. Do they hold a position of power over you (this statement can be debated but I will just refer to previous comments about different organizations who have teacher/student situations having rules against dating because the teacher is presumed to be in a position to take advantage of the student; or all the messages from students who have fallen in love with their instructor and they "just know" the instructor feels the same way). I wonder if the stylist message boards have a bunch of messages from customers who say they are in love with their stylist (well, there was one I had a - never mind, wrong board)?

Fasc, I get what you are saying but I completely disagree that a pro pushing their student for extra cash is in any way connected to "would you like fries with that?"

 

[IndyLady]

Fasc, I get what you are saying but I completely disagree that a pro pushing their student for extra cash is in any way connected to "would you like fries with that?"

I know I keep derailing this, but when I used to work at McD's, I was initially baffled and subsequently annoyed that I was supposed to be upselling ("would you like to Supersize that?"). I was like, the customers know what they want, if they wanted it they would have already ordered it. Clearly I was not endowed with any aptitude for sales.

Except in one odd case where it was cheaper to buy the meal (burger, fries, pop) than to buy the burger/fries or burger/pop combo without the third item. On one of my first days at the register, a customer who ordered burger/pop got mad that I had not suggested fries after he had already paid and then figured out that pricing scenario.

 

[Loki]

You don't have to upsell to do well in sales. The most successful ppl I know match a product to the customer's needs and budget. And they follow up to make sure everything is satisfactory.

Lying, coercion, bullying and copping a superior attitude might get you more sales short term, but will lose customers long term.

Fool me once...

 

[flightco]

Once again, please feel free to tell us where every cent of your salary goes. Because many jobs don't pay enough to cover doing pro-am comps a few times a year, but apparently yours does. How is that a necessary part of your compensation? How many people have jobs that cover the costs of doing pro-am? I can name 10 random professions that do not. I can also name COUNTLESS people who think YOU make too much money to do what you do. But I'm sure you think your pay is either fair or not enough. Why should dance instructors have to defend any bonuses they get but you shouldn't have to defend how much you get paid?
If you have a job that requires you to travel on weekends, you make sure it pays enough to board your dog on weekends, pay for a babysitter. If you have a job that requires specific clothing, you make sure it pays enough to do so. If you're running your own business, as most instructors are, then making sure those costs are covered is part of setting your fees. If YOU were an independent contractor, you'd make sure your costs were covered or you wouldn't have a business for long.
And if you have a job with an incentive for sales, you're going to get bonuses. Heck, MANY professions have bonuses as part of the compensation structure. Sorry yours doesn't. If you feel you aren't paid properly in your profession, feel free to switch to becoming a dance instructor, and become one of the dance instructors obviously living in the lap of luxury. Of course, when they aren't swimming in their pool full of diamonds and cash, they also have to defend every cent they make from every source of income because of the demand for transparency. And then be criticized because they don't want their dog to starve and poop all over the house while they are away on business. And that doesn't seem something YOU are willing to do.

Wooh, please step forward and collect your prize for making up the most facts in a online thread! (The audience applauds while Indy Lady refuses and dares you to give her the sideways look).

I am not going to go back through the entire 11 pages but perhaps you can tell me,

1. Where did anyone say they want to know where every cent an instructor makes comes from/goes?
2. You said, "Why should dance instructors have to defend any bonuses they get but you shouldn't have to defend how much you get paid?" This isn't one of your made up facts but I will answer the question. If my company gave out our bonuses in front of our customers, I guarantee you they would be livid, some of us (not me very often) get more in the yearly bonus check than our customers make in a year. They know we get a bonus and commission but they don't need or want to see the check (actually some would want to see it but only to complain and say they are paying too much). Do this away from the people who paid to be there and you will avoid a lot of conflict. I mean, really how many industries give the bonus checks out in front of the customers?
3. I don't believe the consensus here is that Pros make too much, where was it stated they should make less?
4. Transparency - the comment on transparency was related to the fact that the top teacher award sounds like it would be to the person who is the top teacher when in fact it is paid to the teacher who brought the most students to dance the most rounds - somewhat misleading but not something we can't all understand after the first one is handed out. No place did anyone ask for transparency on every transaction.

The point of the OP if I remember 11 pages later was questioning if the TT award is in the best interest of Ballroom dance. The statements made were that it could and has persuaded some Pros to push for more rounds for their own financial gain at the expense of the student. This has and continues to happen. (I doubt it happens with the pros on this board because they are giving of their time just being here and I doubt they would then turn around and try to extract additional lessons/rounds from a student, especially one who cannot afford it). I think the suggestion was made that perhaps they find a different way to compensate the Pro so they don't feel encouraged to do this. Of course the TT award is good for the organizers and the Pros, it does nothing for the AM and obviously sometimes causes hard feelings; it might be better taken off line than to display it on Saturday night.

Just another note for us AM's, if you think back to a competition I remember all the Pro's working non stop - they were making sure we knew our way around, knew where to sit, even where the restroom is. Keeping a close eye on when the next round was, practicing with us before hand, their work at a comp is never ending, yeah they earn what they get.

 

[fascination]

Are you living a fantasy (an instructors wording of PRO/AM) with your stylist or the concession stand. Do they hold a position of power over you (this statement can be debated but I will just refer to previous comments about different organizations who have teacher/student situations having rules against dating because the teacher is presumed to be in a position to take advantage of the student; or all the messages from students who have fallen in love with their instructor and they "just know" the instructor feels the same way). I wonder if the stylist message boards have a bunch of messages from customers who say they are in love with their stylist (well, there was one I had a - never mind, wrong board)?

Fasc, I get what you are saying but I completely disagree that a pro pushing their student for extra cash is in any way connected to "would you like fries with that?"

I completely get what you are saying...I do not dispute that, with a pro/am instructor, there is the messy business of thinking one has a relationship...and I also get that there is way more money on the line than in a salon...but neither diminishes my point that the practice itself is the same, from the perspective of the provider.....that is, motivated by the same thing...it is simply a sales tactic, to gain more revenue...with varying levels of pressure...certainly some of us in the vast wastelands, may perceive a far greater pressure, having fewer viable options....and yes, the other attachment can complicate things as well

 

[fascination]

You don't have to upsell to do well in sales. The most successful ppl I know match a product to the customer's needs and budget. And they follow up to make sure everything is satisfactory.

Lying, coercion, bullying and copping a superior attitude might get you more sales short term, but will lose customers long term.

Fool me once...

and therefore, it all irons itself out in the end...you live and you learn.......and you move on to someone who doesn't have priorities that don't match your own

 

[wooh]

Presenting your arguments in the light that isn't most flattering to you isn't "making up facts."
So you want the top teacher award happening in a back room. When everyone wants transparency. Ok. Perhaps those facts aren't "made up" but they sure don't make sense.
Of course, then everyone will want to know where the money to the comp goes. How dare they charge x per round! It doesn't cost that much to rent hotel space! Shouldn't more go to the teachers who are actually working? What about the prizes? Why aren't they MORE?

 

[jump'n'jive]

Off topic but in regards to charging our students to do pro/am we switch from charging per entry to charging a flat fee per style. X dollars for smooth...etc.

This takes the pressure off us on selling more entries because we get our flat rate regardless. Now we leave it up to the student to budget what they can do and pick an appropriate amount of entries. I don't care if it's 5 or 200.