Trends in Standard styling

[Warren J. Dew]

Another thread, https://www.dance-forums.com/threads/schools-of-thought-in-ballroom-dance.22067/, discussed schools of thought in International Standard coaching. That thread was from a decade ago, and since then there has been significant development in International Standard styling in parts of the world. This has been particularly marked in WDSF competitions in Europe, such as this one:



I'm interested, not just in opinions on the style, but also in how that style developed, and where it comes from in terms of coaching schools - or indeed whether it descends from those schools at all.

 

[dancepro]

Sounds like you would like more information on the Schools of Thought, why and how they have developed over the years?

I am not claiming myself as being an expert in the history of dance however I am able to help with clarifying when the Standard split up into 4 distinct styles.

I don't want to repeat myself so you might want to ask more specific question so I don't end up writing a book. LOL

 

[j_alexandra]

Warren, are you asking about the WDSF emphasis on shaping, the difference in balance and contact, the head position and actions, etc.? I would also like to know how that style developed.

It seems like WDC standard and WDSF standard are different dances, and the development from, say, Traditional and Round schools would be interesting to me.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I wouldn't mind a book, but I think my primary interest here is how the currently popular style on the continent developed over the last 10 or 20 years. Which schools of thought did it primarily develop from? How was it spread - by top proponents of the schools, or by people who might not have completely understand them, or who wanted to add their own ideas? Or was it developed by people just trying to do what they thought they saw, not necessarily correctly?

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Warren, are you asking about the WDSF emphasis on shaping, the difference in balance and contact, the head position and actions, etc.? I would also like to know how that style developed.

Yes to all of that. I suspect but do not know that they are all related, and I'm hoping to learn more in this thread.

 

[j_alexandra]

I wouldn't mind a book, but I think my primary interest here is how the currently popular style on the continent developed over the last 10 or 20 years. Which schools of thought did it primarily develop from? How was it spread - by top proponents of the schools, or by people who might not have completely understand them, or who wanted to add their own ideas? Or was it developed by people just trying to do what they thought they saw, not necessarily correctly?

Those sound like leading questions

 

[Warren J. Dew]

They are specific to some of my guesses. How else am I supposed to be more specific?

I don't see how they are any more leading than your "It seems like WDC standard and WDSF standard are different dances". Leading or not, I'd appreciate answers to any of these questions.

 

[IndyLady]

I found this article. It's an entertaining read, at the very least.

https://dancesportnews.info/wdc-vs-wdsf-differences/

A couple gems:

• "In the ProAm tournaments the students (mainly elderly people) participate as a couple with their teachers."
• "So right now it is difficult to make a still picture of the situation of how the cake is distributed."
• "THE GREAT CONFLICT"

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I found this article. It's an entertaining read, at the very least.

https://dancesportnews.info/wdc-vs-wdsf-differences/

A couple gems:

• "In the ProAm tournaments the students (mainly elderly people) participate as a couple with their teachers."
• "So right now it is difficult to make a still picture of the situation of how the cake is distributed."
• "THE GREAT CONFLICT"

It's entertaining, with the entertainment value enhanced by the apparent computer translation artifacts. That said, in this thread I'd like to stick to dance styles and not dance politics.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

No bites, eh? Maybe a video of European dancers at an earlier stage of training will provoke thought:



I'm not sure I want my kids forcing body contact that way.

 

[IndyLady]

That said, in this thread I'd like to stick to dance styles and not dance politics.

I respect that, but I think the styling difference is largely driven by said politics, so they're going to be intertwined. The WDSF style seems to be driven by Olympic aspirations, so they need(ed) to to up the ante to maximize interest and TV ratings, same path that gymnastics and figure skating went down. So it becomes a question of how they can make things bigger and badder, probably largely by trial and error, not so much "I prefer the round theory to the square theory". Like new tricks in the aforementioned Olympic sports, and the increasingly crazy and difficult obstacles on American Ninja Warrior (remember when contestants used to struggle with or go out on the salmon ladder, now that's a basic obstacle everyone has in their backyard). I don't think it's as deeply academic/theoretical as you're reaching for.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

To the extent that the stylistic trends are being driven by WDSF Olympic aspirations, I agree, that's fair game. However, I think both gymnastics and then figure skating followed the path toward more flashiness only after they were Olympic medal sports.

Last I checked the IOC was skeptical of judged sports because they couldn't be measured objectively by "higher, faster, stronger" standards. The WDSF has been struggling to come up with "objective" judging standards; I don't know how far they've progressed or whether such standards are used in their competitions. I definitely don't see how "objective" standards would lead to the styling changes we see, though I'm open to explanations.

I'm also under the impression that the WDSF is more interested in Latin than in Standard, so if Olympic aspirations were at work, shouldn't we expect to see more change in Latin styles than in Standard? To my eye - admittedly more sensitive to Standard - I'm not seeing a lot of change in Latin; is there any?

----

I can see how the style in the first video could be interpreted as trying to make things "bigger and badder", but what about the under 12 video? It strikes me that in the U12, the same lordosis that's seen in the first video is not being used for shaping, but rather just to ensure body contact. And yet, I can see how that would develop into the adult style in the first video if you got used to dancing that way.

I wonder to what extent the emphasis on body contact was a result of the coaching philosophies that became dominant in continental Europe. In the UK, there's more variety in the approaches at a young age. For example, here's a video at a UK juveniles competition - the first round, and at a younger age, so the standard is lower, but you can see the different approaches being used by different couples:



For example, among the stronger dancers in this heat, number 557 with the blue dress appears to be using the same technique for body contact as in Europe, but 349 with the red dress is using a different contact point completely - right front to right front instead of right front to center - and 573, also with a red dress, doesn't seem too concerned with maintaining constant body contact at all.

The right front to right front style is unusual, but has been used by high level dancers, such as Bob Burgess and Doreen Freeman in the 1950s, and later by Richard and Janet Gleave, based on the videos I've been able to find. Harry Smith-Hampshire, world champion in 1961, was a strong advocate of constant body contact in his Dance News columns, so presumably he used it himself; but, one could wonder if his retirement from back problems had something to do with that style, too.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Forgot the most important point: so do there exist a continuous coaching lines from the 1950s to the present continental European style? That's a long time to trace stylistic influences, but I have seen coaching lines traced at least past 2000.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

duplicate pls remove

 

[dancepro]

To the extent that the stylistic trends are being driven by WDSF Olympic aspirations, I agree, that's fair game. However, I think both gymnastics and then figure skating followed the path toward more flashiness only after they were Olympic medal sports.

Last I checked the IOC was skeptical of judged sports because they couldn't be measured objectively by "higher, faster, stronger" standards. The WDSF has been struggling to come up with "objective" judging standards; I don't know how far they've progressed or whether such standards are used in their competitions. I definitely don't see how "objective" standards would lead to the styling changes we see, though I'm open to explanations.

I'm also under the impression that the WDSF is more interested in Latin than in Standard, so if Olympic aspirations were at work, shouldn't we expect to see more change in Latin styles than in Standard? To my eye - admittedly more sensitive to Standard - I'm not seeing a lot of change in Latin; is there any?

They have been trying to get into the Olympics since the 1960’s. My mother was part of the original group that wrote the request to be accepted by the Olympic Committee

----

I can see how the style in the first video could be interpreted as trying to make things "bigger and badder", but what about the under 12 video? It strikes me that in the U12, the same lordosis that's seen in the first video is not being used for shaping, but rather just to ensure body contact. And yet, I can see how that would develop into the adult style in the first video if you got used to dancing that way.

I wonder to what extent the emphasis on body contact was a result of the coaching philosophies that became dominant in continental Europe. In the UK, there's more variety in the approaches at a young age. For example, here's a video at a UK juveniles competition - the first round, and at a younger age, so the standard is lower, but you can see the different approaches being used by different couples:



For example, among the stronger dancers in this heat, number 557 with the blue dress appears to be using the same technique for body contact as in Europe, but 349 with the red dress is using a different contact point completely - right front to right front instead of right front to center - and 573, also with a red dress, doesn't seem too concerned with maintaining constant body contact at all.

The right front to right front style is unusual, but has been used by high level dancers, such as Bob Burgess and Doreen Freeman in the 1950s, and later by Richard and Janet Gleave, based on the videos I've been able to find. Harry Smith-Hampshire, world champion in 1961, was a strong advocate of constant body contact in his Dance News columns, so presumably he used it himself; but, one could wonder if his retirement from back problems had something to do with that style, too.

They used to dance more front to front prior to The Irvine’s. The Irvine’s moved more offset due to their height difference. The Gleave’s main coaches were the Irvine’s. The Body School and Square School are all dancing right front to right front.

I was trained that body contact is important however it should be created as a result of actions and shouldn’t be forced.

When I had lessons with Bob Burgess he wanted my partner and I to have a more front to front contact. It was really difficult for my partner and I to dance front to front contact and we kept doing what our coach taught us to do...