Turns

[meganG]

I need help with my double pirouette. I can't keep center and I fall to the left a bit. I need some kind of earth shaking advice that is going to solve all my problems. I also find that if I don't pay them enough attention, my arms float downward instead of staying shoulder height.
HELP ME.

 

[latingal]

Welcome to DF meganG!

We are mostly a partnered dance site, are you speaking of pirouettes in the balletic sense?

 

[meganG]

Jazz style

 

[opendoor]

...need help with my double pirouette

Hi megan, welcome to DF

I am a tango dancer and (I´m sorry) I have no idea what jazz style actually is. But I think that the basic techniques should be comparable. So try to follow the following aspects:

-mentally find the spot on top of your head where an imaginized axis sticks in your head

-start with a torsion of your shoulders, let the torso, and finally the hips follow (the mental picture is the rubber band). Works also when the motion starts downstairs.

-raise the pubic bones and try to push the ischium bones towards the ground when spinning (as a mental idea)

-turn your head independently, delayed and quicker than the torso. Try to fix the same point with your eyes again.

hope it may help
OD

 

[latingal]

Actually the technique between a pirouette for jazz is more like that of the technique of ballet. Some of the technique is comparable in ballroom/latin, but some is not as comparable.

For instance, in ballet - and some jazz depending on the type of jazz you are doing - you will not use so much separation of the body (twisting/unwinding in separated parts of the body) to initiate the turn. You keep the torso more in one piece with the hips than in a style like latin ballroom. You do use some, but not as much as you'd use in international latin where you want a snapping of speed in the turns rather than the even flow of a pirouette in ballet (you use the inner thigh muscles and legs to power the turn more in the plie in fourth of fifth position)

Without seeing you actually do a double, it will be very difficult to tell what your problem is....but here are some general throughts:

I can't keep center and I fall to the left a bit.

Make sure you keep your core activated; check how you prepare and go in to the turn - are you shoulders and hips parallel to the floor?; are you centering correctly over your axis? tailbone to the heel - foot, hip, sternum and neck/head connected?; are you relaxed (not collapsed though) in the upper torso and shoulders during the turn?; do you feel relaxed energy down in to the floor and up through the top/back of your head?; are you arms connected/flat and held by your back not your arms?; are you putting too much energy in to the start of the turn - believe it or not doubles do not take that much energy to initiate - good ones feel like they are easy?

I need some kind of earth shaking advice that is going to solve all my problems

Sorry, but it's normally a combination of all these things, so usually no one piece advice changes things drastically.

my arms float downward instead of staying shoulder height.

Make sure your arms are being held by your back, not your shoulders or arm muscles.

Best of luck to you meganG!

 

[opendoor]

..you will not use so much separation of the body (twisting/unwinding in separated parts of the body) to initiate the turn. You keep the torso more in one piece with the hips than in a style like latin ballroom..

Sounds interesting. Do you have an explanation? Or is it simply due to a more trained core muscle system?

 

[GGinrhinestones]

Sounds interesting. Do you have an explanation? Or is it simply due to a more trained core muscle system?

I don't know if I can answer this as completely as you would like, but I do know it doesn't have anything to do with a "more trained core muscle system." Both styles of turns (we'll call them "ballet" and "latin" for clarity sake) require a lot of trained and toned core muscles.

The difference comes from the rotation of the body. In ballet turns, everything (the ribcage, shoulders, spine, hips, etc) moves together. In latin turns, the turn itself comes from the twist of the spine - the ribcage moves first, the hips and head and feet follow. There is a very clear, distinct separation between different parts of the body which does not happen in ballet. That's about the best I can break it down - but I know the experts here can do a better job.

As for the OP, I know I had problems falling out of turns for a long time (still occasionally do). It usually is one of or a combination of any of the following: tilting in the middle of the turn, dropping a shoulder, holding back a shoulder, collapsing the core, arching the back, tilting or otherwise moving the head off the center of the body, not getting over the feet...the list is endless, and without a lot of point-by-point breakdown and a visual, it's hard to tell what it might be. Also, in my case, it least, the cause changed from day-to-day, but the result was oddly always the same...good luck!

 

[latingal]

GG did a good job of explaining it. Yes, in the classical types of dance the body does turn more as one unit than in latin. It is part of the form and technique ("characteristic") of the dance itself.

 

[opendoor]

GG did a good job of explaining it. Yes, in the classical types of dance the body does turn more as one unit than in latin. It is part of the form and technique ("characteristic") of the dance itself.

Yes she did! And I actually learned that the classic technique is totally different, but that the argentine and the latin way are based on a comparable one.

 

[pygmalion]

Yes, she did. :-D

One of my former teachers used to describe it spins/turns as having the core lead and allowing the rest of the body to catch up. He slowed it down until it was almost comical, to illustrate his point.

Very well said, GG. :-D

 

[GGinrhinestones]

Thanks everyone!

Just goes to show that if you hear it over and over and over and over again from your teachers and coaches, eventually it sticks.