Types of Tangueros: The Good, the Bad, and a myriad of Jerks

[Angel HI]

...my (former) teacher ... says he never verbally asks the lady how many lessons she has had. He just starts dancing with her, and begins with doing very simple steps. If she is able to follow that well, then he can try other steps. If not, he just sticks to basics.

This is as I do it as well. It is very usual, at least in AT, to dance more than once with the same partner. This will allow much time for more intricate level movements, if necessary. I make a point to remember that some of the best dances are the ones danced in simple, basic bliss.

 

[Heather2007]

"So, how long have you been dancing?" What I'm trying to do is ascertain her approximate experience level so that I know how to arrange the dance and what I can and can't lead with her.

A chap who a fortnight ago on a flying visit from Australia dropped into our milonga. I watched him from a distance seated by himself and studying the floor. I approached and asked him to lead me in a dance. During the first half of the first track his steps were quite simple (musicality however, beyond par). By the end we had performed a strenuous, sweaty 20 or so minute session akin to show-tango. He watched and guaged. He danced and guaged, without having to resort to questioning my CV. If a man asks a woman of her level he has then the responsibility to not exhibit disappointment if he receives the reply he wasn't expecting or more walk off in search of a better follower. Don't ask the question. Just watch and guage. Dance and guage.

 

[jennyisdancing]

A chap who a fortnight ago on a flying visit from Australia dropped into our milonga. I watched him from a distance seated by himself and studying the floor. I approached and asked him to lead me in a dance. During the first half of the first track his steps were quite simple (musicality however, beyond par). By the end we had performed a strenuous, sweaty 20 or so minute session akin to show-tango. He watched and guaged. He danced and guaged, without having to resort to questioning my CV. If a man asks a woman of her level he has then the responsibility to not exhibit disappointment if he receives the reply he wasn't expecting or more walk off in search of a better follower. Don't ask the question. Just watch and guage. Dance and guage.

Exactly..and I should add that it's only okay to walk off if you are not already on the dance floor. I don't think it's right to bring someone onto the floor, then ask them about their dance background, and then proceed to dance with them while acting frustrated. I have had leaders do this to me.

 

[Heather2007]

Exactly..and I should add that it's only okay to walk off if you are not already on the dance floor. I don't think it's right to bring someone onto the floor, then ask them about their dance background, and then proceed to dance with them while acting frustrated. I have had leaders do this to me.

It is NEVER okay to walk off and leave the follower (or leader) stranded - seated or standing. They should only walk off at the end of the track after dancing (and yes, even if it is only the one track that their milonga reputation will allow). There is a reason why one's date of birth or race is no longer required to be added on a CV. It prevents us from passing down judgment on another like some God of the Torah. And like one poster mentioned, the years put in does not necessarily make for a good dancer. This I have seen, followed and led.

 

[jennyisdancing]

It is NEVER okay to walk off and leave the follower (or leader) stranded - seated or standing. They should only walk off at the end of the track after dancing

To clarify, I agree. I wasn't advocating that it's okay to approach someone who is seated, ask them to dance, inquire as to their background, then walk away if you don't like the answer. That's not cool. I only meant that if you are casually talking to someone when you are way off the dance floor (like at the bar) you could engage them in a conversation about their dance experience without feeling obligated to dance with them.

 

[Heather2007]

To clarify, I agree. I wasn't advocating that it's okay to approach someone who is seated, ask them to dance, inquire as to their background, then walk away if you don't like the answer. That's not cool. I only meant that if you are casually talking to someone when you are way off the dance floor (like at the bar) you could engage them in a conversation about their dance experience without feeling obligated to dance with them.

I know what you meant and my response wasn't directly aimed at you (you've been the recipient of such behaviour and so of course wouldn't be advocating it). I copied your post to my response only to drive home my message to others who do this and those who think it would be okay if they were to.

Perhaps this shoud be a thread in itself: There are many wonderful female leaders on the London circuit and I am yet to witness or hear any bad word said against them. I always study a fellow female lead when they are dancing and they are always so gentle and caring towards their follower and willing to dance with any level. I have sent beginners to dance with them and they are always so accommodating.

I would be interested to hear of any followers who have had a bad experience with a female lead.

 

[jennyisdancing]

I know what you meant and my response wasn't directly aimed at you (you've been the recipient of such behaviour and so of course wouldn't be advocating it). I copied your post to my response only to drive home my message to others who do this and those who think it would be okay if they were to.

Understood.

And it occurs to me that perhaps another category should be added for types of tangueros/tangueras: The Clique Monster. This person only dances with people in their clique. They won't acknowledge you if you're new and not in their group - no matter how good a dancer you are.

I thought of that one after attending a milonga last night and having a conversation with another lady there. She is a very good dancer, several years' experience, way better than I am, and she is very nice and likable. Yet she told me that there are certain other milongas where she has sat there all evening and no one asks her. She says this has happened to other ladies as well.

I've seen this myself. At least if I don't get asked, I chalk it up to being a beginner and lacking skills. But it's disheartening to think that I could invest time and money on improving myself and still spend that much time sitting out.

 

[jhpark]

another sad fact: most people only have a handful of partners they really like to dance with. i mean, the top tier, dancing is heaven, she follows everything i even think of leading (or he leads me so well i just do things without knowing what the hell is happening). even beginners. even great dancers.

when you're a beginner you have the false hope of thinking that as you improve, you will be able to dance with a wider variety of people. that's true. but you'll also really enjoy it less. you'll notice little things, like the way so and so presses into your back with his hand, or so and so always knocks you off axis during a certain molinete, or....

fortunately, there are other obsessions in life than dance

 

[jennyisdancing]

when you're a beginner you have the false hope of thinking that as you improve, you will be able to dance with a wider variety of people. that's true. but you'll also really enjoy it less. you'll notice little things, like the way so and so presses into your back with his hand, or so and so always knocks you off axis during a certain molinete, or....

Um, jh, I already notice those things, even as a beginner. It doesn't seem that hard to spot each leader's quirks. I try to remember them so I can adjust my following to it. We all have imperfections in our dancing and it doesn't lessen my enjoyment unless it's a really bad problem.

Anyway, my teacher has said many, many times that the goal should be the connection and feeling with your partner, which you can experience even if the dance is technically imperfect.

 

[bastet]

Understood.

And it occurs to me that perhaps another category should be added for types of tangueros/tangueras: The Clique Monster. This person only dances with people in their clique. They won't acknowledge you if you're new and not in their group - no matter how good a dancer you are.

I thought of that one after attending a milonga last night and having a conversation with another lady there. She is a very good dancer, several years' experience, way better than I am, and she is very nice and likable. Yet she told me that there are certain other milongas where she has sat there all evening and no one asks her. She says this has happened to other ladies as well.

I've seen this myself. At least if I don't get asked, I chalk it up to being a beginner and lacking skills. But it's disheartening to think that I could invest time and money on improving myself and still spend that much time sitting out.

The Clique Monster- I've seen this as well (and been the recipient of said behavior). It seems to be quite common in my own town, and is probably quite common elsewhere too. It's very disheartening.

For me- I don't care who a person "groups" with, if they are a nice person and don't have a habit of manhandling, I'll give it a go.

 

[bastet]

Um, jh, I already notice those things, even as a beginner. It doesn't seem that hard to spot each leader's quirks. I try to remember them so I can adjust my following to it. We all have imperfections in our dancing and it doesn't lessen my enjoyment unless it's a really bad problem.

Anyway, my teacher has said many, many times that the goal should be the connection and feeling with your partner, which you can experience even if the dance is technically imperfect.

Agreed- everyone's got quirks and no one is perfect, and you don't have to be a pro to notice it. I'd be sitting forever if I waited to only dance with people that dance like Alex Krebs (becasue the likelihood of that happening is infinitesimal). So it annoys me (having also been the recipient of attitudes like this) that it appears I have to be more perfect than my dance partner and seemingly accomodate all of their faults just fine while having none of my own, just so they will ask me to dance. Very disheartening.

 

[Peaches]

Understood.

And it occurs to me that perhaps another category should be added for types of tangueros/tangueras: The Clique Monster. This person only dances with people in their clique. They won't acknowledge you if you're new and not in their group - no matter how good a dancer you are.

I thought of that one after attending a milonga last night and having a conversation with another lady there. She is a very good dancer, several years' experience, way better than I am, and she is very nice and likable. Yet she told me that there are certain other milongas where she has sat there all evening and no one asks her. She says this has happened to other ladies as well.

I've seen this myself. At least if I don't get asked, I chalk it up to being a beginner and lacking skills. But it's disheartening to think that I could invest time and money on improving myself and still spend that much time sitting out.

Yup. Sad, but true. I avoid certain milongas for just that reason. There are some places where if you don't show up with a partner, or are not part of the Clique, you just don't dance. End of story.

I have no illusions that I'm great, and I'm perfectly willing to chalk up a portion of an evening spent sitting to not being great (yet! ), but I'm not that bad.

 

[Peaches]

another sad fact: most people only have a handful of partners they really like to dance with. i mean, the top tier, dancing is heaven, she follows everything i even think of leading (or he leads me so well i just do things without knowing what the hell is happening). even beginners. even great dancers.

when you're a beginner you have the false hope of thinking that as you improve, you will be able to dance with a wider variety of people. that's true. but you'll also really enjoy it less. you'll notice little things, like the way so and so presses into your back with his hand, or so and so always knocks you off axis during a certain molinete, or....

fortunately, there are other obsessions in life than dance

Gotta disagree. I enjoy it as much now as I ever have. (Yes, I have improved.) I look back and realize how much of a beginner I was, and cringe a bit, and feel that much more grateful to the men who asked me to dance then. I look at my dancing now and see where I've improved, know where I need to improve, and wonder what I need to work on that I don't even know about yet. But I love where I am now--it's just part of the journey. I connect differently now with my leaders, and for different reasons. And, I'm really looking forward to when I get better, to see what I'll enjoy the most then.

But, then again, I can love dancing with people for reasons other than them just being a great dancer, so maybe that has more to do with it. I enjoy dancing with the not-as-good-as-I-used-to-think leaders, because they were kind and patient and generous when I was starting. I enjoy dancing with friends, because I like that bond I have with them. I love dancing with beginners who are self-conscious and unsure and seeing them smile when I compliment them (because, truly, there is almost ALWAYS something to compliment).

To me, the whole AT/milonga experience is so much more than just the dancing. I'm there to have a good time, and because I'm looking to, I think, I find things to make me happy just about everywhere.

 

[jhpark]

You are obviously not a pessimist

 

[Peaches]

Oddly enough, no.

I used to be. But then I kind of got tired of it, and decided to be an optimist instead. So I changed my outlook on things. Worked out pretty nicely...I highly recommend it.