Ultimate differences between competition and social dancing?

[DancePoet]

But is there much place for improvisation and freedom in social ballroom dancing, I don't think so, that's why one will prefer swing dance or salsa dance or argentine tango for social dancing.

I think there is a place for improvising in social ballroom. I'm best at it in foxtrot. The amount of improvisation depends on how much confidence I have in my partner to follow me for the most part. I mean it can be done. When you say there is no place for it, do you mean that most social ballroom dancers don't do it? This is almost certainly true. Beginners dance patterns. Advanced dancers dance patterns with good technique.

I've been experimenting with unorthodox moves in American Bronze Foxtrot at social events. The ladies can dance it, and most of the time they smile when I throw something in that is unusual. I'm learning AT now, too, and it is surprising how much I can sneak into a foxtrot or a tango.

 

[DancePoet]

my goal as a social dancer is to be the kind of partner that makes the dance as enjoyable as possible for my partner. while there is some overlap in the skill sets in terms of posture, balance & footwork, etc. partnering skills are not the same as the skills people practice to do well at competition.

even so, i consider the main distinction to be in the difference in mindset. there is what i feel compelled to describe as a 'rigidity' in the approach - in a competition there are expectations that do not exist in a social dance situation:
- each partner is at a relatively equal proficiency level;
- each partner will have exactly the same choice of syllabus moves to choose from & expect the partner to have a comprehensive mastery of that syllabus - if not an outright choreographed routine;
- the partnership will already have a pretty set (& explicit) vocabulary in place to communicate & receive signals during the dance;

while these things can be true between two partners in a social setting, they can still look good togeher regardless - a good social partner can & should make his or her partner look better whereas a competition partner has to rely on the partner mastering his or her own technique to accomplish the same kind of result as their 'looking good' is measured by how well they adhere to the playbook.

I like this.

And I like the quote tsb has and decided to post it, too, just in case it changes soon:

"'Is it then not clear that all the ills of mankind, all the tragic misfortunes that fill our history books, all the political blunders, all the failures of the great leaders have arisen merely from a lack of skill in dancing. ' – Moliere"

 

[Laura]

Oh, bummer. I'm afraid I meet be a disappointment if we ever meet and get a chance to do foxtrot. Although I am just beginning to learn International Slow Foxtrot, and I'm already liking it.

Sounds like you'll be more than ready to me!!

 

[DancePoet]

Oh, bummer. I'm afraid I meet be a disappointment if we ever meet and get a chance to do foxtrot. Although I am just beginning to learn International Slow Foxtrot, and I'm already liking it.

Sounds like you'll be more than ready to me!!

Does this mean you only do American Foxtrot?

 

[Laura]

I can do both, although my Smooth is nowhere as strong as my Standard.

 

[DancePoet]

I can do both, although my Smooth is nowhere as strong as my Standard.

Somehow I read your previous post completely wrong. My apology.

Perhaps it is time for bed. :roll:

 

[Kitty]

Re: Ultimate differences between competition and social danc

What if any fundamental differences do you think would exist between a perfect social dance, a perfect competition one?

I don't feel there is any difference.

I prefer to social dance with people that I know: friends, bf...
but thats probably true about competitive dancing as well.

 

[tsb]

the full quote (which i couldn't seem to fit into the signature space unless i changed the font) is as follows:

"When someone blunders, we say that he makes a misstep. Is it then not clear that all the ills of mankind, all the tragic misfortunes that fill our history books, all the political blunders, all the failures of the great leaders have arisen merely from a lack of skill in dancing." – Moliere

 

[Chris Stratton]

Re: Ultimate differences between competition and social danc

I prefer to social dance with people that I know: friends, bf...
but thats probably true about competitive dancing as well.

I actually have competition danced with a total stranger - not even a single step of practice before walking on the floor for the event. Of course that's only unusual in ballroom - in say WCS it's apparently the norm.

 

[DancePoet]

Re: Ultimate differences between competition and social danc

I prefer to social dance with people that I know: friends, bf...
but thats probably true about competitive dancing as well.

I actually have competition danced with a total stranger - not even a single step of practice before walking on the floor for the event. Of course that's only unusual in ballroom - in say WCS it's apparently the norm.

What's the story behind this?

And I liked the full quote even better!

 

[Chris Stratton]

Re: Ultimate differences between competition and social danc

I actually have competition danced with a total stranger - not even a single step of practice before walking on the floor for the event. Of course that's only unusual in ballroom - in say WCS it's apparently the norm.

What's the story behind this?

Not really much story... it's not really uncommon at college comps, and when it happens it's fairly typical for the results to reflect the partner's skills more than their lack of practice together. This might be due to the persistence of group classes into higher levels in collegiate programs than in the general dance world, and also the the size and interchange between those programs creating better opportunities to apply competition-oriented skills in social settings.

 

[randomMysh]

I really enjoyed reading everyone's posts on the matter. It was educational to hear the guys' side. For the follow (at least for me), the amount of analysis during dancing is inversely proportional to the quality of dancing. You can't think and follow at the same time, especially if you'r trying to follow the lead and the music at the same time. So maybe it's easier to play for the follow, provided that the lead lets her. He supplies the structure and she has the freedom to do whatever, as long as it fits, at least on some level, with what he's doing and the music. Doesn't sound so free when I write it down, but somehow we manage. :lol:
I think the idea that the woman's part is necessarily less creative is a misconseption. True, her ability to express herself depends on the sensitivity and the skill of her lead. Sometimes the lead is such a control freak that we couldn't play no matter how much we want to, and sometimes he's so tentative that we're afraid to play and intimidate him further. But when the lead is understanding and plays the give-and-take game right, we have all the freedom in the world, because the kind of structure he imposes is not there to limit us, it is to provide the framework within which we can elaborate and improvise, along with him. This is painfully difficult to describe in words, because words are the farthest thing from my mind when it's actually happening. Maybe that's why it's such a joy--when else do we get a chance to gracefully say nothing in a social setting?

 

[tacad]

This is another assertion that one can be creative in ballroom and without great technique. I just had a wonderful night of dancing. At one point the band played one of my favorites, Mack the Knife, and we danced foxtrot. It was toward the end of the night and I had become comfortable dancing with my partner. I did a few moves I had never done before and did some things in ways that I had never used before.

However, now a plug for technique. With good technique I will be able to execute more moves and the creativity will be more accessible. right now inspiration will strike and heck if I know if I can carry it out. I'm just as likely to stumble around. And the better I know the pieces/parts of the dance the more often inspiration will strike.

 

[Chris Stratton]

Yes, one thing that really helps with creativity is to get to the point in study where you realize that the syllabus is just a collection of case studies in dancing intended to illustrate some of the possibilities. Socially, and eventually in competition, you can stop trying to (as a friend of mine put it) remember which ones were actually chosen to go in the book. That's for the leaders - in a way, the followers have to do this from day one - all reasonable sequences of actions are possible, so following is mostly at the level of reflexes that create actions in response to actions. And then of course both also have something going on at a higher phrasing/feeling kind of level that shapes the intent of the dancing.

But the license to fool around comes in part by learning to understand what makes a sequences of actions reasonable...

 

[tacad]

By a sequence of reasonable actions you mean not creating a sequence which would be awkward? Not flowing?