Mr 4 styles
Forum Master
Renata you are totally wrong... it was my idea!!!!
other than that you are totally correct including where the split should occur 
other than that you are totally correct including where the split should occur 
USA Dance - DanceSport New Policy & Program Changes
- Thread starter s2k
- Start date
Renata Shvarts
Member
Renata you are totally wrong... it was my idea!!!!
LOL
stash
Forum Master
Now I could be totally wrong about this, and people can yell if they would like, but if there are 21> who want to do the adult nationals, they have parents who are footing the bill, more so than Adults that are competing senior 1 and adult, and possible have more disposable income seeing as they aren't paying for rent, utilities, etc.... Just a crazy thought...
I understand one side is going to get mad at the split, but I honestly think having an all adult event would be much more enjoyable for all parties involved. Dance parents (especially dance mom's) can get a little crazy in and outside of the ballroom (I've seen it happen on facebook comments about DQing children at comps). But then again I am totally biased here, being an adult.
I understand one side is going to get mad at the split, but I honestly think having an all adult event would be much more enjoyable for all parties involved. Dance parents (especially dance mom's) can get a little crazy in and outside of the ballroom (I've seen it happen on facebook comments about DQing children at comps). But then again I am totally biased here, being an adult.
Mr 4 styles
Forum Master
So stash... you want to put the adults with the seniors?
Mr 4 styles
Forum Master
For numerical attendance equality I'd make the cut where renata put it but either is fine
Bailamosdance
Forum Master
It amazes me that I have to mention this, but virtually ALL of the world class finalists in pro divisions are Senior (over 30).
Mr 4 styles
Forum Master
Apples and oranges dude pro divisions if they ever happen will be different
stash
Forum Master
Agreed. I don't think seniors want to compete against Victor and Anastasiya... Just because they are over 30(?) does not equate to the same as senior one champ. Lol.
stash
Forum Master
Nah, she wants to delete the children
Delete the dance moms. The kids are fine. Especially the little ones doing bronze. They are too cute. Obnoxious, loud, rude parents on the other hand, enabling bad behaviors and not setting a good example, not so much.
Bailamosdance
Forum Master
I meant that the AGE of the top dancers in competition around the world are considered senior.
Joe
Forum Master
s2k
Well-Known Member
A couple of questions I have that I do not want to be taken as "she's shooting down the idea", but questions that merely continue to move the conversation forward:
1) When we discuss Internationally-held competitions, and attempt to compare what they do vs. what we could do, I can't help but wonder if the American style is danced outside the US (methinks not, but me also thinks this may change in the future. Not so much currently). So international comps that have many competitors and span many days - do the number of competitors in those make up for the lack of the two American styles we dance in the US? Adding more styles adds more time to the event, no? So can we really compare what we do to what International competitions do, in that regard?
2) Pretend for a moment we're leaping forward in time a few years and there ARE two Nationals - one East, and one West. So we'd have two National Champions in S2 Prechamp American Smooth. We'd have two National Champions in S1 Latin Champ. So... and forgive me - I really like words - how can there be two National Champions? You're either the best in the nation overall, or you're the vice-champion in the national overall. You can be the "best in the west," or the "pride of the south," but those are regions. "Congratulations, X and Y, you're the Regional National Champion!"
2.1) So to be the true National Champion, a couple would have to go to both the East and the West and win at both the East and the West.
3) Let's go a teensy smidge off topic: There was a post about concerns for getting dance instructors visas, and the needing to prove how exceptional one is in one's field in order to get a visa. Having to share a National title, might that negatively impact one's "exceptionalism"? This is not asked in a sarcastic manner but only one in which I am learning more about the visa process and am interesting discussing any potential unintended consequences of a dual-Nationals.
4) Ken Richards posted a lovely, well-organized "reasons for Baltimore" on Facebook a while past, and in another thread I copied that and pasted it in. You could search for it. The gist of the email was "Baltimore because the majority of help is on the East Coast." I think the Gumbo chapter ran Nationals this year and I think they did a fantastic job. What west coast chapter would be willing to help run a 2nd Nationals? Would running a 2nd Nationals fall to another chapter, like Nationals and the Gumbo personnel? Having two huge events bring up legitimate financial and logistical concerns that need to be addressed.
5) Now let's get personal, so HERE is where you can read in the "okay, now she's shooting down the idea."
I'm an S1 American-style open dancer. My partner and I dance down to adult in order to have any competition at all whatsoever. I'm barely 40, so I know that us being able to dance down will only happen for a few more years. My partner and I discussed it already - if Nationals gets split, we're not going to travel to two Nationals events - it would be either the S1 with the grown-ups but no competition or the Adult with the children AND the competition in our style. We're going to travel where the most competition for us would be - and that would be with the Adults. If there are two Nationals, I'm 40 and I'd be at the children's table (S4s now I know how being excluded feels). Again, this would not affect us, personally, for much longer, but in the future it could affect other couples. So now we're traveling by plane a significant distance to dance only 7 heats rather than the 14 if Adult and S1 are together in one spot. That's hard to justify, financially. Please: I do recognize that the majority of couples do not fall into the category that my partner and I do. I'm just taking a moment to mention, on a personal level, why two Nationals would suck* for us personally. If it works for the majority... then when we hit 45 PARTY IN THE BALLROOM!
Anyway, I have only been a member of USAD for a handful of years, and right now my partner and I are working to be more active and involved locally because - despite the organization's "issues" these past few years - we've really enjoyed our experiences, meeting the people we've come to be good friends with, and having a series of competitive venues to show off the hard work we put in to this crazy hobby of ours!
_______
*NOTE: This is not the word I used. I just wanted to point out the hilarity of my repeating how much I love words and then being rapped on the back of the hand for using what the DF filters consider a naughty word! I love it!
1) When we discuss Internationally-held competitions, and attempt to compare what they do vs. what we could do, I can't help but wonder if the American style is danced outside the US (methinks not, but me also thinks this may change in the future. Not so much currently). So international comps that have many competitors and span many days - do the number of competitors in those make up for the lack of the two American styles we dance in the US? Adding more styles adds more time to the event, no? So can we really compare what we do to what International competitions do, in that regard?
2) Pretend for a moment we're leaping forward in time a few years and there ARE two Nationals - one East, and one West. So we'd have two National Champions in S2 Prechamp American Smooth. We'd have two National Champions in S1 Latin Champ. So... and forgive me - I really like words - how can there be two National Champions? You're either the best in the nation overall, or you're the vice-champion in the national overall. You can be the "best in the west," or the "pride of the south," but those are regions. "Congratulations, X and Y, you're the Regional National Champion!"
2.1) So to be the true National Champion, a couple would have to go to both the East and the West and win at both the East and the West.
3) Let's go a teensy smidge off topic: There was a post about concerns for getting dance instructors visas, and the needing to prove how exceptional one is in one's field in order to get a visa. Having to share a National title, might that negatively impact one's "exceptionalism"? This is not asked in a sarcastic manner but only one in which I am learning more about the visa process and am interesting discussing any potential unintended consequences of a dual-Nationals.
4) Ken Richards posted a lovely, well-organized "reasons for Baltimore" on Facebook a while past, and in another thread I copied that and pasted it in. You could search for it. The gist of the email was "Baltimore because the majority of help is on the East Coast." I think the Gumbo chapter ran Nationals this year and I think they did a fantastic job. What west coast chapter would be willing to help run a 2nd Nationals? Would running a 2nd Nationals fall to another chapter, like Nationals and the Gumbo personnel? Having two huge events bring up legitimate financial and logistical concerns that need to be addressed.
5) Now let's get personal, so HERE is where you can read in the "okay, now she's shooting down the idea."
I'm an S1 American-style open dancer. My partner and I dance down to adult in order to have any competition at all whatsoever. I'm barely 40, so I know that us being able to dance down will only happen for a few more years. My partner and I discussed it already - if Nationals gets split, we're not going to travel to two Nationals events - it would be either the S1 with the grown-ups but no competition or the Adult with the children AND the competition in our style. We're going to travel where the most competition for us would be - and that would be with the Adults. If there are two Nationals, I'm 40 and I'd be at the children's table (S4s now I know how being excluded feels). Again, this would not affect us, personally, for much longer, but in the future it could affect other couples. So now we're traveling by plane a significant distance to dance only 7 heats rather than the 14 if Adult and S1 are together in one spot. That's hard to justify, financially. Please: I do recognize that the majority of couples do not fall into the category that my partner and I do. I'm just taking a moment to mention, on a personal level, why two Nationals would suck* for us personally. If it works for the majority... then when we hit 45 PARTY IN THE BALLROOM! Anyway, I have only been a member of USAD for a handful of years, and right now my partner and I are working to be more active and involved locally because - despite the organization's "issues" these past few years - we've really enjoyed our experiences, meeting the people we've come to be good friends with, and having a series of competitive venues to show off the hard work we put in to this crazy hobby of ours!
_______
*NOTE: This is not the word I used. I just wanted to point out the hilarity of my repeating how much I love words and then being rapped on the back of the hand for using what the DF filters consider a naughty word! I love it!
Renata Shvarts
Member
Joe, I don't know maybe many people had that idea I was the first one to verbalize it after these past Nationals, talk about it with USA dance high officials and put it out there on Facebook. I also had over 100 senior dancers on a group message to ask them what they think about it. I never take credit for someone else's work or ideas and I never give credit away from mine.
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