USA Dance - DanceSport New Policy & Program Changes

It is never 'either/or', as much as you might be led to believe. Until the last few years, USA Dance represented am/ams in all comps, and they worked with the NDCA to make sure that the am rules and conditions were followed.

We danced many comps (and still do) that are NDCA, or other. We get to see all the decorations, get to tour the vendors, be in a lighted and first class venue, be judged by the top judges (who are the tastemakers and set the bar), and our cost for entry is roughly the same as a USA Dance event. There are two differences, tho - thanks to a long series of conflicts and fights that resulted in many questionable decisions that ultimately put ams in the middle of a turf war, USA Dance no longer supports or can mediate any issues at NDCA events. And second, also thanks to these fights, USA Dance no longer works along with the comp giants to change or improve conditions. And attempting to untie the ams as soldiers in a war for money or power is NOT what they signed up for.

Hopefully, moving forward, USA Dance will elect officials that see the larger picture - that ams need to be represented and helped not only in their 'bare bones' comps, but also 'the enemy's' comps, and also throughout the world. In the recent past, Ams have been 'banned' and asked to agree to exclusivity with no help from USA Dance to fight this (and as the current president mentioned in his remarks yesterday, that as a result many fled USA Dance never to return - the top dancers in America). There are good candidates with strong ideas and voices running for office - let's hope that they win and many of us can return to an org that is losing members, recognition, and forward motion.

If there is a USA Dance in 5 years, it will be despite the actions of the past. Let's hope...
 
Bailamosdance said:
We danced many comps (and still do) that are NDCA, or other. We get to see all the decorations, get to tour the vendors, be in a lighted and first class venue, be judged by the top judges (who are the tastemakers and set the bar), and our cost for entry is roughly the same as a USA Dance event.
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And at those NDCA competitions, you (and the pros and for that matter the PASDers entering low numbers of events) are heavily subsidized by the pro-am student dancers who are adding significant amounts of money to the system. I mean, consider the vendors. They simply go where the customers are. And for better or worse, a bronze pro-am student dancer is wildly more likely to drop thousands of dollars on a new dress than a bronze am dancer.

Which leads into something I very much hope USA Dance understands. I'm all for the organization doing more with T/S. If the new Birmingham NQE has T/S events and my pro isn't out of town vendoring, I'll probably compete in it there - despite it being a matter of my spending hundreds of dollars to compete in uncontested events. Why? Because I want to support it. But they need to understand that they're never going to attract the pros who are competitive for Top Teacher awards. The amount of money in the system is simply too different. But there *are* plenty of pros who have smaller student bases for whatever reason who could conceivably be interested in T/S events. But it's always going to be different and *should* be different, imo. Frankly, I consider it being a more bare-bones approach to competition a virtue. Other's mileage may vary.

That said, I do have to pick a bone with s2k's post. I know she knows this, but I have to say it anyways. Pro-am events are about the glamour for *some* of it's customer base. There are plenty of really, really good pro-am student dancers (some of whom are Top Student types and some of whom aren't) and it's entirely possible to focus on the dance and competition in that format. There's still a lot of money involved though, even for those who are minimum-qualifying-freestyles+scholarship types.
 
Brilliant post , s2k! How can an organization that can't even get a proficiency points system figured out hope to fight something like the NDCA?

IMO, USAD is broken. Badly. One can only hope that Renata and colleagues will right the ship.
 
I also have to take exception at s2k's post.

I am a pro/am student who is NOT independently wealthy and as such can only compete once/year because that is all I can afford due to the exorbitant prices. I would happily do without all the expensive hotels, free paperweights I will never use, expensive meals, stickers, and other things if it means the average cost per competition would be much lower and I could compete more often. While I do recognize there are some PASDs who love the 'experience' of dancing pro/am, I have yet to hear one say 'gee I wish I paid more to dance less so the floor could be lined in gold'.

If USADance does work to develop a T/S division, to really be competitive with NDCA, IMO the events need to be either the same or only marginally more than what the am/am couples pay for entries.

I belong to several pro/am discussion groups and cost is the number one issue brought up. Despite perceptions, most of us, like am/am couples, just want to dance and compete.
 
you want to dance for less??? get an amateur partner and do usa dance

you want to dance with a pro ?? do ndca and spend the cash its a business people and a luxury one at that

like horses, cars, yachts etc

not every one gets to play in the ndca... when i dance pro am ( with two different pros btw add that up) i have a different expectation than when a dance am am with my wife at usa dance and as BD said some ndca events have enough ams to make it worth while and its not expensive senior latin at emerald is always good, senior smooth at ohio is always good if you live near there its even cheaper!!

ndca... im testing myself against male professionals ( for all intents and purposes )
usa dance its me and the mrs vs other hobbyist amateur couples... still competitive, but more relaxed, social and different kind of fun

each organization should be everything to one group of dancers not try to be everything to everyone, that will fail no matter who does it

fortunately the NDCA has not chosen to go get the budget conscious am am couples ..they have enough people willing to drop the cash in pro am... most ndca comps are growing

usa dance needs to lure people with a little disposable income to rise from the social dance ranks and give competition a try!! thats the grassroots movement we need. If some ballerina choses to go pro...well they will go into teacher training and join the ranks of the NDCA eventually or end up on DWTS ( waves at Val)

USA dance will always be the farm system for junior youth and adult future teachers... so what.. it more important to get dance out to the slightly overweight inactive adult to senior population with some disposable income (of which there is MANNNYYYY more) and get them social dancing with a fixed percentage that will get "addicted.. like me to competitive dancing ( and hit the gym to get fit enough to do well)and will put in the work and money


some days i eat at a fancy steakhouse

some days i eat steak tacos at a taco shop

they both taste great but are very different experiences

and they both involve steak!!! which ( like dance) i LOVE!!

I hope you get my point from this ramble
 
Oh and unless you are from Themyscira you can find ( or grow) and amateur partner.

If am am is not your thing coz you want to measure only yourself against others then..... dance pro am only( or take up golf or tennis or some other soloist sport) but don't whine about the cost... ( except in here coz thats what we are all here for:p)

cheap pro am is oxymoronic...the sooner you accept this the sooner your head will stop hurting:eek::beye:
 
Spookisgirl.. i was writing my next post when you replied.. certainly i have heard that "excuse"before.. I suspect they are out there but there is no good infrastructure to find them.. alternatively boyfriends or husbands could be your partner... men need to man up and dance with their spouses or GFs

part of the success of the male pros is based on that exact ratio inequality.. USA dance chapters could work to affect change for the positive in this area off topic but i did some of this as chapter president i even got an active duty marine to take up dance!!
 
Mr 4 styles said:
Oh and unless you are from Themyscira you can find ( or grow) and amateur partner.
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It can be genuinely difficult to find one who's a genuinely good, geographically stable fit. (I'm up to three partners now who have moved on me for work or school. And another who went pro.) I'm sorry, but it can be, no matter what protestations of its being an excuse you might make.
 
excuse was is quotes indicating it as a place holding term for whatever word you may chose to describe the explanation. It was not meant as inflammatory. you had three partners indicating they can be found.. Now as a male i would expect you to have less difficulty than a female ratio wise

difficult yes.....impossible no.... as you have proven in your case
 
also spookisgirl.... like fancy feet you are from canada and i understand its a bit tougher up there with the whole smaller population and a much bigger space thing. Being from the USA i tend to forget that

but ill tell you what i told FF...move to the US!!!!!! jude will dance with ya!!!:cool::cool::cool::D;):)
 
The actual number for me could be as high as seven, if one counts cases like the most recent which was just a handful of lessons before she got a job offer in Texas. Five if we limit it to partners with whom I competed in competitions I actually cared about.

But there was only one of those ladies with whom I danced in more than one competition, and she and I only competed for about a year and a half. So the vast majority of my competitive career (such as it is), I have not had an amateur partner. It hasn't been for lack of desire.

Admittedly though, at this point - I'm pretty much past wanting to have a partner just for the sake of having a partner. I'm not categorically opposed to growing a partner, so to speak. But I've got to have a reason to believe there's a potential future there.
 
I would love to move to the US to dance, but as I am a serving military member, my work tends to tie me to my country...

Partner or no, my point is that there are those in pro/am who are there not because they want to be, but because they want to dance, and it is the best option for them, cost or no. I am not against some of the costs of pro/am, but I am against pro/am entries being high so that am/am entry fees can stay low.

As I said, if USADance wants to grow a T/S division, offering similar events and entry fees as am/am would certainly help, and would give NDCA a run for their money. There are PADS who adjust.
 
Spookisgirl said:
I would love to move to the US to dance, but as I am a serving military member, my work tends to tie me to my country...

Partner or no, my point is that there are those in pro/am who are there not because they want to be, but because they want to dance, and it is the best option for them, cost or no. I am not against some of the costs of pro/am, but I am against pro/am entries being high so that am/am entry fees can stay low.

As I said, if USADance wants to grow a T/S division, offering similar events and entry fees as am/am would certainly help, and would give NDCA a run for their money. There are PADS who adjust.
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Entry fees are the same for pro am heats as they are for am/am heats in most situations. The costs increase when you pay for a teacher to dance with you, etc. and no, pro-am does not have high costs to subsidize am/am. The two tracks are not connected in any way.
 
Bailamosdance said:
Entry fees are the same for pro am heats as they are for am/am heats in most situations. The costs increase when you pay for a teacher to dance with you, etc. and no, pro-am does not have high costs to subsidize am/am. The two tracks are not connected in any way.
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Well, not really the same, though close if you dance the same number of heats/dances. Heat prices (per dance or per scholarship) may be the same, but that's per am/am couple (2 people) vs per pro-am student (one student). So am/am is cheaper to dance per person, even at NDCA, even before you pay your pro.

And the pro-am entries absolutely subsidize everything - without those entries, there would be no comp (NDCA). They aren't renting out that big ballroom for 3 days for a handful of am/am entries, they are doing it for hundreds (or thousands) of pro-am entries, and the am/am categories are an afterthought. That's the business model there. That's just reality.
 
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