USA Dance/Proficiency Points Question

[Smoothy]

I'm not new to the forum, but this is the first time I post something. I've been competing as an amateur in bronze and silver for over a year now (dancing for 4 years all together).

My husband and I compete often and are starting to get some respectable results in our age and proficiency level, to where we think we may be close to advancing to the next proficiency level. I'm a little confused though because there seems to be a discrepancy between the 2012 USA Dance Dancesport Rulebook and the Guide to The Proficiency Points System on the usadance website.

Per the 2012 Dancesport Rulebook:

4.6.2.16 When an individual athlete has accumulated half (½) the points necessary for a partnership to move into a higher proficiency level, he/she is considered to be moved into the higher proficiency level...

4.6.2.21 Partnerships are ineligible to dance in proficiency levels where the sum of the individual member’s points is 200 or greater.

Per the Guide to the proficiency points system:

"A partnership is eligible to dance in a proficiency level in which the sum
of the partners’ individual points is less than 300"

My intuition tells me that the Guide to the proficiency points system is outdated. So that would mean that, per the 2012 Rulebook, If either myself or my husband each have 100 or more points, we are independently at the next proficiency level, and if together our points add up to 200 then we as a couple are at the next proficiency level. Is that correct?

 

[syncopationator]

I had not heard that the combined point level is back down to 200. Although I had been out of dancing for over a year and a half so have not kept up with the rules. There used to be a database on the USA Dance website that tracked your proficiency points, but last I checked it wasn't there anymore.

 

[Leon Theou]

I'm not new to the forum, but this is the first time I post something. I've been competing as an amateur in bronze and silver for over a year now (dancing for 4 years all together).

My husband and I compete often and are starting to get some respectable results in our age and proficiency level, to where we think we may be close to advancing to the next proficiency level. I'm a little confused though because there seems to be a discrepancy between the 2012 USA Dance Dancesport Rulebook and the Guide to The Proficiency Points System on the usadance website.

Per the 2012 Dancesport Rulebook:

4.6.2.16 When an individual athlete has accumulated half (½) the points necessary for a partnership to move into a higher proficiency level, he/she is considered to be moved into the higher proficiency level...

4.6.2.21 Partnerships are ineligible to dance in proficiency levels where the sum of the individual member’s points is 200 or greater.

Per the Guide to the proficiency points system:

"A partnership is eligible to dance in a proficiency level in which the sum
of the partners’ individual points is less than 300"

My intuition tells me that the Guide to the proficiency points system is outdated. So that would mean that, per the 2012 Rulebook, If either myself or my husband each have 100 or more points, we are independently at the next proficiency level, and if together our points add up to 200 then we as a couple are at the next proficiency level. Is that correct?

The guide is from 2008. I would assume that the 2012 rulebook is correct.

 

[Akita]

My understanding is the sum is now 200 points. (300 points was the old sum.)

Sure wish they would bring back the proficiency database and make it current ... calculating your points is somewhat akin (and about as much fun) as figuring your taxes.

 

[syncopationator]

Hopefully some of the senior USA Dance executives on DF can chime on if and when the proficiency points database will be back.

 

[Daphna]

Not to be snide, but when we have a volunteer who will be willing to work on it on a regular basis and be willing to do this on a monthly basis, update all points from all NQEs and ideally from all NDCA events.

Again, all we need is one good volunteer who is dying to help out with this and is willing to work on this for at least a couple of years.

 

[Daphna]

I'd even take a year, and then a year to train the successor

 

[Joe]

Well, since Mark now has a feature to track competitors' results, shouldn't it be possible to write an algorithm to track points?

 

[CarolinaSmooth]

This has been a topic of discussion in our area recently (among math and engineering types, undergrads through postdocs).

Assuming that the database on which o2cm is built is SQL-compliant (likely MySQL), generating 1) a points reporting scheme per event and 2) a cumulative tracking table is a straight-forward task. Everything would be automated after that as part of the results upload.

The two potential complications I see are consolidating multiple instances of individual records (like "Jack O Shane" and "Jack OShane" being treated as different people) and how o2cm treats the event name in the final upload (is "Adult Bronze Rhythm CR" a single label, or is that an index string: Age [3] Level [2] Style [4] Dances [1,2]). The first issue is a survivable imperfection if not addressed (you miss a few comps for some people), but the second eliminates the possibility of automation if the event title is just a label. Fortunately, given the way the results system uses multiple pulldown lists to ID an event or group of events, this is likely indexed and not a problem.

I and some others might be willing to take a crack at designing a report routine this summer.

Heck, I'd even be willing to do the backlog of results by hand for a couple of months, if that's all the options available.

I'm serious about the offer, so pm me if you are interested.

-CarolinaSmooth

 

[JudeMorrigan]

I pinged Daphna on it too. It sounds like your SQL-fu is probably more up-to-date than mine is though. It's been a couple of years since I did anything with it.

 

[SDsalsaguy]

Kudos to you both CarolinaSmooth and JudeMorrigan! Its all too easy to simply complain about this, without being willing to do anything. As Daphna has noted it is a volunteer run organization, and like anything this has both pros and cons. In this case, its great to see some people offering to try helping, so again, kudos to you both!

 

[NielsenE]

We (the resurrected BallroomRegsitrar/CompInaBox team) are also working on this, though, we're targeting the collegiate(YCN) crowd as our first user base. However the data model supports the appropriate filtering to handle USA Dance points as well and I think that will follow quickly. But its good to have multiple groups working on this.

 

[SDsalsaguy]

Great to hear that too Nielsen; please keep us posted!

 

[Daphna]

If everyone who is willing to help IMs me, I'll be in touch about a week after Nationals. Sorry can't do much right now, am pretty swamped with getting ready for Nationals. If you will be there, come by and say hello and maybe we can set up a meeting.

 

[CarolinaSmooth]

I and some others might be willing to take a crack at designing a report routine this summer.

Heck, I'd even be willing to do the backlog of results by hand for a couple of months, if that's all the options available.

I'm serious about the offer, so pm me if you are interested.

-CarolinaSmooth

And several months later ... I have a working points database. It covers nearly every O2CM event from Nationals 2008 (the start of the points tracking) to Nationals 2012.

The system is basically a perl script running on a flatfile database that was generated and reformated from the O2CM results. It produces the official USA Dance scorecards, as well as individual dance scores at the Adult level (both USA Dance and YCN).

Here is a sample out (actual record, names changed):

Official Database Record for Asimov, Issac
Number of matching records is 99
 
USA Dance Smooth
Level\Age      PT1 | PT2 |  J1 |  J2 |   Y |   A |  S1 |  S2 |  S3 |  S4 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newcomer:      18 |  18 |  18 |  18 |  18 |  63 |  63 |  63 |  63 |  63 | 
Bronze:         0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |  18 |  18 |  18 |  18 |  18 | 
Silver:         0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Gold:           0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Novice:         0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Pre-Champ:      0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Championship:   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
 
USA Dance Rhythm
Level\Age      PT1 | PT2 |  J1 |  J2 |   Y |   A |  S1 |  S2 |  S3 |  S4 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newcomer:     166 | 166 | 166 | 166 | 166 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 
Bronze:        70 |  70 |  70 |  70 |  70 | 166 | 166 | 166 | 166 | 166 | 
Silver:         7 |   7 |   7 |   7 |   7 |  70 |  70 |  70 |  70 |  70 | 
Gold:           0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   7 |   7 |   7 |   7 |   7 | 
Novice:         0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Pre-Champ:      0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Championship:   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
 
USA Dance Latin
Level\Age      PT1 | PT2 |  J1 |  J2 |   Y |   A |  S1 |  S2 |  S3 |  S4 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newcomer:     129 | 129 | 129 | 129 | 129 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 
Bronze:        56 |  56 |  56 |  56 |  56 | 129 | 129 | 129 | 129 | 129 | 
Silver:        11 |  11 |  11 |  11 |  11 |  57 |  57 |  57 |  57 |  57 | 
Gold:           0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |  11 |  11 |  11 |  11 |  11 | 
Novice:         0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Pre-Champ:      0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Championship:   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
 
USA Dance Standard
Level\Age      PT1 | PT2 |  J1 |  J2 |   Y |   A |  S1 |  S2 |  S3 |  S4 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newcomer:     131 | 131 | 131 | 131 | 131 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 200 | 
Bronze:        44 |  44 |  44 |  44 |  44 | 131 | 131 | 131 | 131 | 131 | 
Silver:         7 |   7 |   7 |   7 |   7 |  44 |  44 |  44 |  44 |  44 | 
Gold:           0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   7 |   7 |   7 |   7 |   7 | 
Novice:         0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Pre-Champ:      0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Championship:   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
 
Common Approach Single Dance Scores (Adult)
Dance\Level          New | Brz | Sil | Gld | Nov | Pre | Cha |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am. Waltz:            42 |  12 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Tango:            51 |  21 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Foxtrot:          63 |  18 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Viennese Waltz:    0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Peabody:           0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Cha Cha:         200 | 166 |  70 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Rumba:           200 | 166 |  70 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Swing:           200 | 161 |  67 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Bolero:           14 |  14 |  14 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Mambo:            20 |  20 |  10 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Samba:          134 | 113 |  57 |  11 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Cha Cha:        200 | 129 |  56 |  11 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Paso Doble:       0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Rumba:          200 | 129 |  56 |  11 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Jive:            82 |  61 |  31 |  11 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Waltz:          200 | 130 |  43 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Tango:          135 |  74 |  25 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Foxtrot:        160 | 117 |  44 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Quickstep:      200 | 131 |  44 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Viennese Waltz:   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
 
YCN Single Dance Scores (Adult)
Dance\Level          New | Brz | Sil | Gld | Nov | Pre | Cha |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am. Waltz:             7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Tango:             7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Foxtrot:           7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Viennese Waltz:    0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Peabody:           0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Cha Cha:           7 |   7 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Rumba:             7 |   7 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Swing:             7 |   7 |   7 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Bolero:            0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Am. Mambo:             7 |   6 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Samba:            7 |   7 |   4 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Cha Cha:          7 |   7 |   4 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Paso Doble:       0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Rumba:            7 |   7 |   4 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Jive:             7 |   4 |   1 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Waltz:            7 |   7 |   7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Tango:            7 |   7 |   7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Foxtrot:          7 |   7 |   7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Quickstep:        7 |   7 |   7 |   3 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
Int. Viennese Waltz:   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 |   0 | 
 
Individual Event Record for Asimov, Issac
(Note: points shown in this list are prior to any doubling adjustments)
mac2011 Ev:96 with Rowling, J. K. finished 1 earning 13 points
mac2011 Ev:34 with Moore, Mandy finished 5 earning 5 points
mac2011 Ev:42 with Moore, Mandy finished 32 earning 0 points
...
usa2012 Ev:7 with Zadora, Pia finished 18 earning 1 points

Note: For the sake of completeness (and their frequency in comp results), I've included a PreBronze/Newcomer skill category and a Senior IV age category.

I've got people on our team looking over their results right now to check on errors or bugs. Next step is putting in web accessibility.

-CarolinaSmooth