USA Dance; Teacher-Student Division

That would mean they'd have to restrict pros form all other comps but NDCA ones, and if I remember correctly (please correct me if I am wrong, I am not a pro-ammer), franchise studios will also hold smaller local comps that would fall under that. Alienating the franchises would be a big mistake.
 
mindputtee said:
That would mean they'd have to restrict pros form all other comps but NDCA ones, and if I remember correctly (please correct me if I am wrong, I am not a pro-ammer), franchise studios will also hold smaller local comps that would fall under that. Alienating the franchises would be a big mistake.
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Depends on how they worded any hypothetical restrictions. The ones on judges specifically allow them to judge at member organizations' competitions. So a similar restriction could leave the franchises clear. It'd be rough on the small, independent competitions though.
 
They can easily word it so that you cannot have NDCA officials or members participate in any T/S events or at events where some bullshit student to teacher ratio hits a certain amount. They could also flat out just say we don't recognize USA Dance events and you will be penalized for participating.
 
JudeMorrigan said:
Depends on how they worded any hypothetical restrictions. The ones on judges specifically allow them to judge at member organizations' competitions. So a similar restriction could leave the franchises clear. It'd be rough on the small, independent competitions though.
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Although they're already hit by the NDCA restrictions on judges, I believe (could be wrong on that, not motivated enough to parse through the NDCA rulebook wording again).
 
Dancing Irishman said:
Although they're already hit by the NDCA restrictions on judges, I believe (could be wrong on that, not motivated enough to parse through the NDCA rulebook wording again).
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They probably are in theory. But the sort of events I'm thinking of usually hire a couple of pros to judge their events and do a show in the evening. These folks typically aren't registered adjudicators (for any organization), so the restrictions don't really apply. If they wanted to use registered adjudicators, things might be different. If anyone cared enough to report them.
 
Thinking about it some more, the timing of this is politically very well executed. If USADance announced this a year ago, NDCA could very easily just whip up another rule that says NDCA registered professionals who compete at USADance events will be fined and/or their registrations suspended. However, they are not as likely to create such a rule at this time because they will be under scrutiny for the antitrust case. Even if NDCA wins the anti-trust case, this gives USADance time to establish these events without any further NDCA punishment threats for the pros. It can also be used as leverage to settle the case as part of the give and take, depending on how much USADance actually cares about these new events. Just some random thoughts...
 
Mengu said:
However, they are not as likely to create such a rule at this time because they will be under scrutiny for the antitrust case. Even if NDCA wins the anti-trust case,
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The feds aren't necessarily involved, and wouldn't be just because USA Dance's lawyers sent a letter. Someone would have to call them in with a formal complaint.

Has an anti-trust case actually been filed?
 
The NDCA is a 501(c)(6) entity and it has about as much authority to impose work restrictions over Pros as your local Chamber of Commerce has to impose work restrictions over independent contractors and the employees of the members and non-members of the Chamber.

Does anyone have a rulebook from your local Chamber of Commerce telling you where or for whom you can/cannot work? Or what people you can/cannot hire to work for you? Does your Chamber require membership and/or registration in order for you to conduct your business with other members/registrants and restrict your operations only to other members/registrants? (Not rhetorical – I'd love to have some examples, if anyone has any.)

Also I wonder, as the NDCA as a Delaware non-profit corporation is not authorized to conduct business in my state (I just checked the Secretary of State's website and the NDCA has not filed as an out-of-state corporation in my state), then just how will the NDCA enforce its "NDCA Labor Laws" over persons who live and work in my state? Even if it did file as an out-of-state corporation, my state has its own department of labor and its own occupational licensing regulations, and those will preempt whatever rules the NDCA might try to impose. I can imagine similar scenarios in other states.

In addition, as the mission of the NDCA, as stated on its Form 990, is to "promote dancing competitions", it's contradictory to then restrict people from participating in dancing competitions. I can imagine that the IRS might have something to say about that with regard to the 501(c)(6) tax exempt status.
 
Cal said:
...the NDCA as a Delaware non-profit corporation is not authorized to conduct business in my state...it's contradictory to then restrict people from participating in dancing competitions.
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It would be the comp organizers that are members of the NDCA that could set restrictions. So long as we aren't talking about discrimination, a business can deny service.

That said, I do feel there is somewhat of an attempt by some to hold on to power by restricting others. However, if those restrictions result in more profit for the businesses, it may make sense for those businesses to line up with the NDCA.

What is dangerous here is the case could be made that in the WDSF there are more great dancers being produced than in the WDC. If this assertion is true, holding on to power through restrictions could be successful only in the short to medium term. Hopefully there are medium to longer term plans that would welcome dancers in the WDSF or USA Dance. I'd love to see more WDSF dancers at US competitions. There are some amazing couples that rarely visit, and that is unfortunate.
 
But the thing is, the competition organizers are not "members" of the NDCA. Pros are not members; judges/officials are not members; amateurs are not members. If you don’t believe me and believe only the NDCA, that's fine, but please do read the introduction to the NDCA Rules that lists the actual members and also do read Section I C (4)(b) of the NDCA Rules which says that "registrants" are not members of the NDCA. The NDCA can't just cherry-pick and treat registrants as "members" for some purposes but not for others – and certainly not when they've got to report that sort of thing in their IRS Form 990.

Following on from that, as competition organizers are not "members" of the NDCA, why would they *have* to deny service to customers just because the NDCA wants them to? Why would for-profit companies turn away business because a not-for-profit organization wants them to? If this were a franchisor/franchisee relationship between the NDCA and comp organizers - well, then, OK. But that shouldn't be the case here. I have searched and found no information on NDCA franchise offering circulars anywhere - and, as the NDCA is a 501(c)(6), it is very likely not in the position to be a franchisor anyway. If the NDCA were to find itself in the role of an "accidental franchisor" in trying to control their "sanctioned" competitions, well, that's potentially got some serious stuff attached to it.

Now, I grant you, I have not seen the legal documents going back and forth between the NDCA and USA Dance that Larinda has seen (though my understanding from the demand letter would be that those documents address antitrust issues and judges issues, not IRS and pro issues). I realize that in a different thread Larinda has said that the people who are challenging the NDCA are barking into the wind and that the challenges to the NDCA are meritless. Well, it may be that I'm barking mad and certainly no one needs to agree with me. But I have run across IRS exemption compliance issues and franchise issues in other contexts and it seems to me that there is a lot more complexity to it and the questions may not be quite as easily dismissed as Larinda suggests. However, I claim no special insight and it may very well be that the expertise of others in this thread is greater than mine in such matters.

I'm not trying to be flippant by any means. But I think this is all a lot messier than what people would wish.
 
Out of curiosity, what benefit does a competition get from being NDCA sanctioned? I know that with USA dance you get a consistent set of rules, quality assurance of judges, and proficiency points accumulation (well... you did). What does a comp being NDCA vs independent actually mean for the pro-am world?
 
mindputtee said:
Out of curiosity, what benefit does a competition get from being NDCA sanctioned? I know that with USA dance you get a consistent set of rules, quality assurance of judges, and proficiency points accumulation (well... you did). What does a comp being NDCA vs independent actually mean for the pro-am world?
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Similar stuff - I think one of the big ones is that you're sanctioned, which allows judges to know they can work your event without fear of penalty. In addition, there's some regulation around comps at the same time in the same area (with the goal of preventing accidental competition between comps that would like to attract each other's entrants - it used to happen in the pre-facebook group era with some frequency in my collegiate scene). Additionally, they get to use the NDCA's centralized listing of comps, which is overall superior to USADance's calendar and I imagine might be one of the big ways pros find out about comps for their students. It might also make it easier to talk a pro into going? An interesting wrinkle in the pro/am world is that the pro in the partnership needs to be convinced enough into going to recommend it to multiple students (or the one or two students who go end up bearing a larger cost burden).

So I guess at the end of the day, it's Quality Assurance plus use of the specialized listing service. And I think Quality Assurance might be higher stakes in the pro/am world, since often the cost to enter a competition is somewhere between double and tenfold what it costs to enter one in the am/am sphere (weighing in travel, lodging, etc. and allowing for wide variance in frugality measures - collegiate comp vs. pro/am is probably tenfold-plus in a *lot* of instances).
 
Hi to all.
First things first:
The T&S category is similar to pro-am only as idea.
The T&S category states that an Established ,educated ,and certified 'DANCESPORT INDIVIDUAL' can guide and dance with
a Social dancer (male-female-same sex)
The above states that a certified 'DANCESPORT INDIVIDUAL' (professional division or WDSF competitor) can participate
in T&S dance events with their students.
THE CERTIFICATION process is up to the Country Member Educational department and it is necessary to Participate in al T&S events.

Emilios Bousios
T&S commission member
 
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