Viennese Waltz: The Close Body Contact is Insane

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It is not harsh. It is business......Inappropriate, end of story.
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Thanks. It's actually good to know this kind of boundary exists - gives a different perspective/option than being "sympathetic". I shall file the knowledge for future use if needed.
 
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I think the real issue is that his last thread was waxing poetically about young men's cushes on teachers and how his teacher is young and beautiful.

Viennese is just a catalyst.
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Alright. Sounds like you've got some sorta feminist vendetta against me. It's funny because IRL and I honestly don't care if you believe me or not, I have female friends who have told me that I'm a feminist even though I had no idea I was one.

First off, it's part of the dance schools business model to have attractive male and female instructors. If it wasn't beneficial, then why hire the the attractive ones? Why not hire the less attractive ones? Cause looks sell in our society and it keeps students wanting to keep coming back.

If you're gonna have attractive male and female instructors, you're gonna have incidents where students can't help but feel attracted. It's simple human biology. Does this give any excuse for any inappropriate behavior? Absolutely not.

And I also fail to see how I violated any boundaries. Am I attracted to my dance instructor? Yes I am. Have I disrespected her or made her feel uncomfortable? No absolutely not and I never would act on my feelings. We have a professional relationship. Yes I do like her as a person even though I don't know her outside of the studio. I also respect her abilities as a good teacher.

As for Viennese Waltz, I had no idea about the closed position until my first real lesson. At my school, it requires you to be at a certain level of regular waltz before starting vienneze. I've done Regular Waltz for a while and it didn't have that kind of contact. I love Waltz and I wanted to learn Viennese it was news to me that it involved such a close position and it caught me by surprise.

I already stated that I will try to rectify the situation by "taking care of it" before my lessons so that no embarrassing incidents happen.

I don't understand the hostility here. Men are men. We have our natural biological urges. As long as we don't act on it in an inappropriate way, I don't see the issue.

I find it funny that women wish more men would learn to dance and get into the dance world but then whenever a man expresses anything remotely sexual, he's categorized as a black sheep. And you wonder why women outnumber men in the social dance community. This kinda attitude isn't very encouraging.
 
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I do not have a feminist agenda. But I have been in this business for 30 years. I have pretty much seen every situation come and go. And I do know, from a business point of view, the pitfalls of allowing male students to walk around with bulges in their pants and professing crushes on staff.

I don't know and am not judging you on anything other than what you have written here on DF.



This attitude isn't meant to be encouraging. We are not asking you, wanting your, or encouraging you to be sexual. We want you to learn to dance. There is a world of difference.
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Professing crushes on staff? I have confessed my feelings on this forum but I would never do so in real life. It would be very awkward, not to mention it could get her fired. Also, unless she gave me any indication she felt the same way (which she never has), I would never act on it.

As for walking around with bulges in pants, it was close to happening ONCE. The first time I did vienneze waltz. I was caught off guard.

Not sure where your hostility is coming from here. You're accusing me of feeling attracted to my dance instructor who by the way I did not choose and who was assigned to me and she just so happens to be very physically attractive and I am a man and I can't help but feel that way and never have I acted on it nor have I ever made her uncomfortable.

The "excitement" in the pants will never happen again now that I know about it.
 
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Ruminations from a guy:

Every now and then, one of the topics that comes up on this forum is who defines just how close a couple should be when in closed hold. The standard answer is that that lady decides, but while that's not *wrong*, I've always considered it a bit of an oversimplication. The way that I was taught was that the guy defines his boundaries and then the lady comes as close to that boundary as she wants but no closer. If you do any social dancing at all, that's an *essential* skill to learn. Quite aside from any uncomfortable biological reactions, it's pretty much a guarantee that there'll be partners you'll want to keep at arms' length to protect your own body.

Anyways, I expect you see where I'm going with this. I 100% agree with the folks saying that if a guy feels trouble a-brewing, he should excuse himself to the restroom until he calms the bleep down. But I'll add that a very simple solution if he finds this happening even as often as once in a blue moon is to put some distance between the hips. Because if a guy can't control himself, he is *not* ready for a full body contact frame, no matter where his technique might be.

TL;DR - the first rule of ballroom dancing as a guy is "don't be a creep". Any other rules are secondary to this, at best.
 
Hey, this thread isn't bad for a boner thread.

For such guys, attitude is everything. If he was deliberately parading around the studio while flaunting his package, I would call this behavior inappropriate. But the OP seemed to have no such intentions. He was even a bit embarrassed by his incident. And he has taken measures to prevent it from happening again. I vote to give the OP, who seemed to be relatively inexperienced, a flyer and forgiveness... provided that the incident does not recur. I do understand that in this current age of extreme sensitivity to social issues, we need to be careful about controversial subjects. But wouldn't "a verbal warning" by the person in charge be sufficient for this case? A policy of non tolerance needs to also be balanced by understanding and second chance.
 
A lot of good points made. I tend to sympathize as I remember having gotten erections from something as trivial as sitting down... But I hear and understand everyone else's points and agree that no one should have to have an erect penis on them (if they don't want one on them). I call for a diplomatic solution! Let's all be friends and dance.
 
Just to be clear. The one time I was getting "excited" was during a group lesson when one of the female dance instructors pressed her leg up against me into that closed position which caught me by surprise. Then as we rotated partners throughout the group lesson, she did that every time. So throughout the lesson, I was rubbed up against her thigh to thigh a total of 8 times. I don't think I developed a full erection but I was pretty damn close and I was trying hard not to let it show.

The first time I did viennese waltz was during a private lesson with my instructor who did not yet introduce the closed position to me yet.

From her onwards, I am making sure I "take care of it" before I do anymore VW.

The closed position is necessary for me to do the dance because if she is not pressed up against me, it is very hard to rotate throughout the dance floor because I am still developing my upper body frame and it's not strong enough yet. So the fact that whoever I'm dancing with is close to me makes the spinning easier otherwise we're just gonna drift.

I don't have any perverted intentions here. I had goals of becoming good at VW because I think it's a cool, elegant dance and that was way before I discovered this thigh to thigh position thing. I knew you had to dance pretty close to your partner but I didn't think her left leg is literally pressed up against your package.
But now that I have learned more about the dance, it makes sense. The closeness is necessary.

As for women finding this offensive, here's the thing. Experienced male dancers are few. At least that's what I've seen. A lot of men are learning like myself and we came into dance pretty damn clueless and ignorant. That's kinda why we joined a dance school. No one knows this. So "accidents" are gonna happen.

Honestly, if I joined a dance school in order to "get some action", I could easily get that elsewhere with a similar amount of money. Dance schools aren't cheap. Private lessons aren't cheap. If I wanted to get some action, I could easily use that money to get my needs taken care of elsewhere. I'm here to spend my hard earned money to learn to dance.
 
I am so confused by this thread. I'm a fairly young guy (30) who's also just starting out, relatively speaking (have been dancing for about a year and a half now, and I started with VW for reasons that I won't go into here). I don't think I've ever been in this position, *especially* for VW where the speed/timing means you don't really have time to think about this sort of thing, when you have a million other things to think about (am I spotting consistently, is my lead coming through, am I able to get all the way around?). I get that when you're breaking it down during a lesson, you may be in a particular position for a certain amount of time, but shouldn't your focus be on learning the figures and technique, not "zomg thigh contact"?

If you're looking for some sort of absolution here, I don't think you're going to get it. Saying "I'm just a guy who's starting out, clueless and ignorant -- cut me some slack, what am I supposed to do about all of the attractive instructors at my studio" is not an excuse.

A lot of the more experienced dancers on this forum have already emphasized that there's zero tolerance for crossing the line, and I don't really want to pile it on. But since you're dismissing their advice as "women finding this offensive," I'll just say as a young, single guy: dude, be professional about this. If you're serious about dance, you'll check all of this at the studio door -- you're there to learn, and it's a waste of your money to be fixated on things like this.

Continued fixation makes me think you have some ulterior priority in mind, rather than just dance. And if you're going to respond by quoting the Four Tops ("I Can't Help Myself"), then learn the figures with a male instructor.
 
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This is, of course, a confusing issue.

To quote one of the great ballroom instructors Jerry Parris, "Ballroom dancing is about sex. It's always been about sex." To deny this basic tenet is to deny reality. Hasn't ballroom traditionally been seen as a mating ritual? Only within the past fifty years or so has (social) ballroom dance morphed into more of a social function while becoming less of a coupling thing. And along with it came the social mores of gentlemanly behavior. Most ladies who practice ballroom dancing find sexual advance attempts by their male counterparts during dances to be boorish, unpleasant, and unwanted. Ballroom dance also has an "artsy" side and a "sport" side. Many of us dancers are in it for the sport alone.

But ballroom instruction is a different animal entirely. It's more of a "how to" thing. Teachers mainly segregate their occupation from sexual activity. Many instructors are married. Generally speaking, they are not looking for some "side action" from their students. But to entice some students into spending more of their hard earned cash, teachers will often resort to being "flirty." It's part of "the game." We students need to be professional in our behavior during lessons with pros. We are required to not engage in sexual advances in their work place. The legal ramifications from such bon mots alone are a nightmare. I agree with the previous poster: I'm taking dance lessons to learn how to dance better. Not to "hook up" with a fellow student or dance teacher.

As for social dances, check your sexuality at the door. As is currently defined, the dance floor is no place for predatory behavior. Ladies love a well mannered lead. And they will more often than not return for another dance when the guy behaves himself. Like it or not, many followers perceive boners on their partners as unwanted sexual advance.
 
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VronskyWasSoVain said:
Just to be clear. The one time I was getting "excited" was during a group lesson when one of the female dance instructors pressed her leg up against me into that closed position which caught me by surprise.
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Dude, she violated your boundaries. You didn't consent to that; she just did it. Not cool. Never, ever go into a body contact position unless you know your partner is cool with it. That goes for everyone, including instructors. It it never necessary to dance in body contact in any ballroom dance (not even VW) -- it can be beneficial, but the dance can be done without it. Don't let her do that to you. The next time she does it, just politely tell her that you are not ready to dance in body contact. If she insists on doing it anyway, complain to the owner.

Besides, from reading the rest of the post I quoted from, it appears to me that she is trying to instruct by forcefully back-leading, which IMO is a lousy method of instruction. You don't learn anything from having your body thrown around like a tackling dummy.
As for the original problem: The basic nature of the problem is that you aren't used to this sort of thing. I could rant here, but I'll save it. After a while, you will get used to the various sensations that you are experiencing, and then you won't have the problem.
 
It happened to me once while dancing with a guy I knew pretty well as a friend. I said nothing, he was too quiet after the dance, it never happened again, I laugh now remembering this.
 
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