Volcadas

[AndaBien]

...Would lead some more if the ladies could follow properly...

Disclaimers first: I've never attempted to lead one, or taken a class on them. They don't interest me. Also, I'm not really sure what the above comment means, regarding followers.

My guess is that volcadas are not a naturally leadable step, meaning no follower would ever do one without having learned to do so in a class. I wonder if followers need to have a mental understanding of what is intended, or else they won't do the "proper" movement.

The reason I ask is because sometimes when I dance with a follower who is not familiar with me, I feel her doing a volcada, or attempting to, where she thinks I've led one, but haven't.

Comments?

 

[Subliminal]

They are as naturally leadable as anything else in tango. Is it natural to step backwards and project yourself forwards? If you were a follower who was never shown the possibility of a volcada, then it would probably not work.

One of my teachers taught me a trick to increase the likelihood of volcadas happening... and that is to reinforce stability in the step before the volcada. Particularly right before a tricky one. If she doesn't have absolute confidence in you, it's probably not going to happen. And the confidence has to exist before that moment. As with most moves, when following, you don't really feel the move until it's already happening. If you're not relaxed, you clench up and brace yourself. The best volcadas are surprises. Pleasant surprises.

As for the left side volcadas, like I said, they just don't feel natural to me. When I do do them, I usually change my embrace deliberately. Either to put more of my left side in front of her in close, or in open to make the right arm connection more stable, the "bicept to bicept" hold as one teacher called it.

 

[dchester]

Disclaimers first: I've never attempted to lead one, or taken a class on them. They don't interest me. Also, I'm not really sure what the above comment means, regarding followers.

My guess is that volcadas are not a naturally leadable step, meaning no follower would ever do one without having learned to do so in a class. I wonder if followers need to have a mental understanding of what is intended, or else they won't do the "proper" movement.

The reason I ask is because sometimes when I dance with a follower who is not familiar with me, I feel her doing a volcada, or attempting to, where she thinks I've led one, but haven't.

Comments?

This is absolutely not true. I've lead them with followers who have never done them before, and I knew this because they exclaimed in the middle of the dance, "I've always wanted to know how to do those, and it just happened without me even thinking about it".

 

[dchester]

As for the left side volcadas, like I said, they just don't feel natural to me. When I do do them, I usually change my embrace deliberately. Either to put more of my left side in front of her in close, or in open to make the right arm connection more stable, the "bicept to bicept" hold as one teacher called it.

I'd have to agree with that. It seems like several (but not all) moves involving the follower's free foot, seem more difficult to lead when the free foot is her right foot. I've suspected it was due to the non-symmetric nature of the embrace, but I'm really not sure.

 

[AndaBien]

... If you were a follower who was never shown the possibility of a volcada, then it would probably not work...

... I've lead them with followers who have never done them before...

OMG, there seems to be a contradiction here. I guess things are good and normal in the tango world.

 

[dchester]

OMG, there seems to be a contradiction here. I guess things are good and normal in the tango world.

Likely, although I didn't see it in what you quoted. I was dis-agreeing with the statement that one needed to take a class on it.

 

[twnkltoz]

Disclaimers first: I've never attempted to lead one, or taken a class on them. They don't interest me. Also, I'm not really sure what the above comment means, regarding followers.

My guess is that volcadas are not a naturally leadable step, meaning no follower would ever do one without having learned to do so in a class. I wonder if followers need to have a mental understanding of what is intended, or else they won't do the "proper" movement.

The reason I ask is because sometimes when I dance with a follower who is not familiar with me, I feel her doing a volcada, or attempting to, where she thinks I've led one, but haven't.

Comments?

I was led in volcadas before I learned them in class. Good leaders got me through them just fine. Lesser leaders had a problem. It's completely leadable, as long as he does his part correctly, she is a good follower and doesn't freak out and bail. But then, if he leads it right, it's probably over before she has time to freak out.

 

[opendoor]

Re: ambiguous

...when I dance with a follower who is not familiar with me, I feel her doing a volcada, .. where she thinks I've led one, but haven't.

Comments?

The leading priciple of a volcada is it´s absence: A follower does a volcada when feet-projection and torso-movement are inconsistent. Some followers are more projection orientated (those will freely do a volcada although none was lead) others will pay more attention to your torso movement (those followers tend to make a rescue step forward instead of a volcada).




.

 

[Temza]

The reason I ask is because sometimes when I dance with a follower who is not familiar with me, I feel her doing a volcada, or attempting to, where she thinks I've led one, but haven't.

Comments?

Maybe she's just been at a volcada workshop.
maybe there is something in the lead that prompts her, for example if you hold her tighter at this moment.
So how does a leader who leads a volcada prevent the follower from stepping forward. From my experience, some leaders hold me up, some don't but just create an angle which prevents me from putting the weight on the extended foot, some do it quickly so i don't have time to put weight on the foot. Any other methods?

 

[twnkltoz]

The reason I ask is because sometimes when I dance with a follower who is not familiar with me, I feel her doing a volcada, or attempting to, where she thinks I've led one, but haven't.

Comments?

How can she do a volcada without you leading it? Isn't the definition of a volcada that you take her off her axis so you're counterbalancing each other? Do you mean she's swinging her leg around like in the typical volcada? Maybe she's just doing an embellishment.

 

[AndaBien]

How can she do a volcada without you leading it? Isn't the definition of a volcada that you take her off her axis so you're counterbalancing each other? Do you mean she's swinging her leg around like in the typical volcada? Maybe she's just doing an embellishment.

Good question, I don't know.

I dance apilado, so my partner is always off her axis, (according to my description of it). 95% of my dance is plain standard stuff, rarely anything fancy.

When I realize her leg is circling around way out there, I suppose she's doing a volcada, or she expected one where there wasn't.

Temza, in these circumstances, I guess she has just attended a volcada class and has them on her mind.

My thought is, when I see them in videos or on the dance floor, that the woman has to do something beyond what is merely led. That is, she has to know the intended step and add something to it to make it happen. When I see a guy make a tiny lead, but his partner makes a large step, either she's a poor follower or she knows the signal for a big movement and contributes her part.

 

[Subliminal]

OMG, there seems to be a contradiction here. I guess things are good and normal in the tango world.

Hehe. Could be. I was just speculating that it is unlikely to happen without the follower having been taught. I would not try to lead one unless I knew the follower and knew she wouldn't freak out. Dchester's statement was from experience, not speculation. So I'll give, it can probably be lead "naturally". But I bet that's kind of rare...

 

[Subliminal]

How can she do a volcada without you leading it? Isn't the definition of a volcada that you take her off her axis so you're counterbalancing each other? Do you mean she's swinging her leg around like in the typical volcada? Maybe she's just doing an embellishment.

Heh! Haven't you ever heard of a Fauxcada? It's when a beginner follower has just taken a class on volcadas and mistakes every off axis movement or off-balance moment as the lead for a volcada.

 

[tangonuevo]

So how does a leader who leads a volcada prevent the follower from stepping forward.

Easiest lead to volcada that I've found is to first lead a boleo so that the woman's left leg goes back. Then I step back and lead a circular motion that becomes a wrap if I step forward with my right foot, and a volcada if I get my right foot out of the way. It's virtually impossible for the woman to step forward unless she really wants to fight the lead. And if I only step back a very small amount and give very good support while I do so, I've yet to see anyone one freak out or do anything besides a very nice and very small volcada.

 

[tangonuevo]

I dance apilado, so my partner is always off her axis, ...When I realize her leg is circling around way out there, I suppose she's doing a volcada, or she expected one where there wasn't.

Perhaps this depends on just how far off her axis the woman is, and whether or not she customarily dances apilado. For example, if she is accustomed to maintaining her own axis and you take her off axis and then lead an ocho cortada, it can feel like a lead to volcada.

My thought is, when I see them in videos or on the dance floor, that the woman has to do something beyond what is merely led.

Nope. The lead to volcada is as simple and as clear as the lead to take a step backwards. She doesn't need to add anything if she doesn't want to anymore than she would for a backstep.

When I see a guy make a tiny lead, but his partner makes a large step, either she's a poor follower or she knows the signal for a big movement and contributes her part.

Perhaps, but not necessarily. If I lead a front linear boleo, I nearly always make the lead small. Whether she barely moves her leg or kicks for the ceiling is up to her. Think of it as with any other adorno. I create an opportunity. What the woman makes of that opportunity is entirely up to her. It's how she can give voice to her dance rather than just being a puppet I move around the floor.