What are DJs doing wrong

[Bailango]

To be fair (and hopefully stir up even more discussion ), what people want to hear/dance to and danceable music are distinct sets with an overlap.

One problem that comes to mind is that people don't necessarily need to be able to dance music — or do justice to it — in order to enjoy moving to it on the pista. I don't like playing late Troilo at some milongas because the skill level is lower and they can't do it justice, but if I know for a fact that they'd enjoy it anyway, well, Danzarín IS coming up!

The (much bigger) problem is that most dancers don't really know (and if they think they know, they don't know for sure) what they want until they actually hear it, and if you ask a dancer at random what tanda they'd like to hear next, chances are, they'll give an orquesta that they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice for them even though they said they'd like to hear it. It's one thing to mention one's preference, and another to think about said preference and orquestas with a similar feel, then say one's preference anyway.

More often than not (but not always!), what people want is a solution to whatever problem or need they have: a dramatic tanda, a slow romantic tanda, a tanda that lets them take a break, et cetera; and not really a specific orquesta.

I've lost count of how many times people have told me that they enjoyed my set afterwards despite asking for tandas that I said I couldn't fit or would try to squeeze in but ultimately couldn't or didn't.

For example, a dancer could request Tango Bardo. I could play La Juan D'Arienzo and they'd be out there in a flash, dancing happily. If someone requests late Di Sarli, I could mix in two Salamanca vocals and they'd still be happy, if not happier.

I think being a DJ requires one to be able to read between the lines (or read the room) and maintain an overall high level of enjoyment. After all, what's the point of a DJ if the pista is empty?

On different days I enjoy or inspired by different music. The same music I might find boring on one day and fun some other.

If DJ consistently doesn’t play inspiring music across multiple milongas, then I stop attending the milongas where that DJ is playing.

I am there to dance. Don’t make me think or ask me what music I like to dance to. That’s why there is a DJ. He/she should read the floor and the crowed. It annoys me when DJs plays complex music when the crowd is mostly beginners or not experienced.

 

[Brummbaer]

It annoys me when DJs plays complex music when the crowd is mostly beginners or not experienced.

Maybe sometimes it's necessary to test the waters? Maybe there's one couple there who effectively give an inspirational performance? I'd agree if it's a set playlist for a known, defined, audience, but a good DJ should be able to read the room and change within the tanda. Maybe another reason for shorter tandas?

 

[Rabbit]

The (much bigger) problem is that most dancers don't really know (and if they think they know, they don't know for sure) what they want until they actually hear it, and if you ask a dancer at random what tanda they'd like to hear next, chances are, they'll give an orquesta that they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice for them even though they said they'd like to hear it.

and if they said "Troilo" that doesn't really help unless you know them well since it could mean about 5 different styles of tanda

 

[opendoor]

..don't like playing late Troilo at some milongas because the skill level is lower and they can't do it justice, but if I know for a fact that they'd enjoy it anyway, well, Danzarín IS coming..

And I find that the complex and fast arrangements of Troilo-Fiorentino are much harder to dance to appropriately than the long melodic arcs and the symphonic chords of the later Troilo.

 

[pianistamediano]

And I find that the complex and fast arrangements of Troilo-Fiorentino are much harder to dance to appropriately than the long melodic arcs and the symphonic chords of the later Troilo.

They're fairly simple as long as you can remember whole songs. Way easier than memorising whole sonatas.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

To be fair (and hopefully stir up even more discussion ), what people want to hear/dance to and danceable music are distinct sets with an overlap.

One problem that comes to mind is that people don't necessarily need to be able to dance music — or do justice to it — in order to enjoy moving to it on the pista. I don't like playing late Troilo at some milongas because the skill level is lower and they can't do it justice, but if I know for a fact that they'd enjoy it anyway, well, Danzarín IS coming up!

Danzarin is a beautiful piece of music . . . and danceable, but it's a complex piece of music.

The (much bigger) problem is that most dancers don't really know (and if they think they know, they don't know for sure) what they want until they actually hear it, and if you ask a dancer at random what tanda they'd like to hear next, chances are, they'll give an orquesta that they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice for them even though they said they'd like to hear it. It's one thing to mention one's preference, and another to think about said preference and orquestas with a similar feel, then say one's preference anyway.

I'd probably say Fresedo, just because. <g> On some nights, Demare. But I don't like to make suggestions to DJs.

More often than not (but not always!), what people want is a solution to whatever problem or need they have: a dramatic tanda, a slow romantic tanda, a tanda that lets them take a break, et cetera; and not really a specific orquesta.

I don't see it as a problem though. I know that there is tango music that I like, tango music that I love, and tango music that I am indifferent to, and some that I actually dislike. I don't care so much what it is as long as it's something I like or love. Sometimes a DJ will play something I've never heard before and surprise me with its beauty. But that music falls within a fairly narrow range of possibilities.

For example, a dancer could request Tango Bardo. I could play La Juan D'Arienzo and they'd be out there in a flash, dancing happily. If someone requests late Di Sarli, I could mix in two Salamanca vocals and they'd still be happy, if not happier.

I probably wouldn't be happy. ;-)

I think being a DJ requires one to be able to read between the lines (or read the room) and maintain an overall high level of enjoyment. After all, what's the point of a DJ if the pista is empty?

Yes, i think that's a reasonable assessment of what's needed. I assume that means learning how to sequence tandas throughout the evening.

 

[pianistamediano]

I'd probably say Fresedo, just because. <g> On some nights, Demare. But I don't like to make suggestions to DJs.

I tend to play at least one or two tandas of Fresedo, depending on how long the night goes; but Demare... sorry to say, I've just heard too much of it in recent months!

I probably wouldn't be happy. ;-)

Sucks to be you

I assume that means learning how to sequence tandas throughout the evening.

There's plenty of opinions about sequencing tandas, but usually I just tell DJs who are starting out to just not cause whiplash (why play deep, dramatic Pugliese immediately after a bright, energetic D'Arienzo???), and focus more on spread. I'd prefer if they played a good variety of tandas and focused on the forest rather seeing only the trees.

 

[itwillhappen]

The first point (arrow) in this announcement from a well-known tango influencer really annoyed me. Why should DJs learn to decide a-priori what danceable music is? I, as a dancer, will decide that. There's an ideologically driven movement in tango that wants to ban certain music from the dance floor, Piazzolla for example.

She's coming to Hamburg as a DJ at Atico on Friday, March 20th. Maybe you two can talk things out and make up there.

 

[opendoor]

Maybe you two can talk things out and..

I had a little online skirmish with her a few days ago. A good dancer and tasteful DJ forwarded her ad for an one-year training course. I couldn't help but warn him that such customer binding hinders open criticism of the instructor. The person in question, even TT thinks she's great, countered and assured me that she constantly questions her teaching methods just to avoid boring repetitive routines. Unfortunately, she had the last word. So, I'm seeking shelter with my sweetheart in the east. I unfriended the person in question on FB back in 2004. That year, they changed their dance style towards puritanism and deleted all their formerly uploaded playful YT vids with large boleos. It's a good thing she doesn't know that I already downloaded that compromising footage back then.

 

[opendoor]

What makes you wonder? Please tell!

 

[itwillhappen]

She's not my cup of tea either, really, but you don't have to leave the city right away; it's big enough to hide somewhere.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I tend to play at least one or two tandas of Fresedo, depending on how long the night goes; but Demare... sorry to say, I've just heard too much of it in recent months!

I can live with Demare most of the time.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Sucks to be you

Matter of opinion and my own opinion takes precedence here.

 

[itwillhappen]

I'll just give my approximate recipe that solves this. (Most of the top 20+ orchestra lists people make are awful and should be deleted.)

~50% top ~5 orchestras. High quality, lots of songs available, almost everyone agrees they're good

~25% lesser orchestras played according to general milonga vibe

~25% personalized tandas that (assuming I can guess what you want) I'll play one for you and one for him, and if I can't tell I will play a modern recording and gauge the response. It's ok if not everyone likes every tanda, so long as they got other tandas that they loved. And because I played 50% top 5 orchestras, they most likely did.

The set list is 100% improvised on the day.

The most important thing is to have a strategy, know what you're doing, and evaluate the results.

For me, tandas from the "Top 5" make up about 40% of the total, and maybe 20% are standard tandas with standard tracks from the "Top 5." (All my "Top 5" produced music up until the 1960s.) My guideline is roughly one-third from after 1935, one-third from after 1950, and one-third from after 2000. But it varies depending on the audience; it can also be up to two-thirds EdO, but beyond that, you'd have to really persuade me and pay me a hefty sum.

When creating a tanda, I don't consider what constitutes a standard track; either it fits well or it doesn't. And when I continue cataloging my tango library, I'm for sure also on the lookout for "hidden gems". A DJ who doesn't do that is, in my eyes, a lazy and superfluous DJ. Only if you're DJing spontaneously, intuitively, and improvising is it a risky approach. I have a long workflow for memorizing, creating a tanda, listening to it, dancing to it privately (I dance a tanda a day with my partner), and finally playing it when the opportunity arises.

I almost always have a pre-prepared, over-long playlist with one or two newly created tandas, within which I then cut or rearrange the tandas. With an audience I know, and that's the case at all my three regular dj venues, the first half runs practically on autopilot.

 

[Rabbit]

I almost always have a pre-prepared, over-long playlist with one or two newly created tandas, within which I then cut or rearrange the tandas. With an audience I know, and that's the case at all my three regular dj venues, the first half runs practically on autopilot.

tbh that's what I would recommend new people do rather than telling people to follow my own process, which requires some prerequisite skills and I'm not even sure which ones exactly.