itwillhappen
Forum Master
Already in the term "social dance," "social" comes before "dance."
And for most people, their own dance is obviously more important than the music played.
This results in the following order:
1. social
2. dance
3. music
What are DJs doing wrong
- Thread starter itwillhappen
- Start date
And for most people, their own dance is obviously more important than the music played.
This results in the following order:
1. social
2. dance
3. music
opendoor
Forum Master
I understand the subtext of your comment. However, there are many more interested people reading this, so I'm driven to clarify this item. The predicate "social" in social dance doesn't mean >social< in the sense of togetherness. It stems from >social< in the sense of "bourgeois", not courtly or aristocratic. It was only in the Romantic period that people began to take an interest in what and how middle-class or rural people danced. Courtly dances, on the other hand, have been recorded and taught for centuries.
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itwillhappen
Forum Master
Well, that's also a matter of personal standards and taste. I hope I've included "gems" at least every hour. It's just a question of whether such a tanda will succeed or not. I wouldn't usually announce it, that's about 'reading the mood'.
It's definitely a mistake when DJs play abstruse pieces by abstruse orchestras because they want to show off their expertise. Or because they think they'll bore the audience otherwise. (Hardly anyone remembers whether the DJ played a tanda four weeks ago.)
The opposite would be to play mostly "common standards". A friend would appreciate that, as he's used it from his weeks-long stays at BsAs. Three tandas by D'Arienzo, three by Di Sarli, three by Troilo, one Pugliese and so on. But I simply don't see it as my job to make a music selection for older men with limited mobility; in my opinion, there are enough playlists for that.
The objective, mostly, is to get people dancing. 'Common standards' are frequently the tracks most dancers like at the time. A tango 'hit parade'! Whilst appreciating that some gems really are gems, the DJs job (as the person playing the music) is to keep the customers, not the DJ, happy at the milonga.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Yes — in general, most dancers (who actually listen to the music instead of just hearing it in the background) notice, unconsciously or otherwise, patterns in the type of songs played in recent weeks. A preponderance of D'Arienzo, a spike in rhythmical music from the 30s (Típica Víctor, Donato, etc.), transient popularity (Romantica Milonguera).
And then there are songs that go in and out of fashion in a cyclical manner — think Poema, Merceditas, Viento Norte, etc.. Of course, the vast majority of dancers can't put their finger precisely on the nature of those patterns, but they still notice.
A DJ needs to be able to appeal to a majority of the dancers at a milonga the majority of the time; at least that's one of my guiding principles, because you always want the pista to be well-populated. That still leaves you enough leeway to play unexpected tandas that suprise and delight dancers, as well as tandas that appeal to dancers who actually care about music and tend to have very specific tastes.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Last weekend, I did a DJ set where I only shortened my pre-made playlist from 4 to 3 tangos per tanda at some point, and skipped the last two tandas. Yes, in my hometown, the flow of a regular 4-hour milonga is predictable; anyone who has to read the floor there a lot suffers just a lack of imagination.
I suppose many DJs don't read the floor either, but rather listen to their own music. And so, based on their own current gut feeling, they get the impulse to provide variety in one direction or another. That's exactly what you can do beforehand, by listening to your playlist of (currently) favorite songs in private and arranging them until you find a balanced mix. Of course, that listening takes a lot of time, which I personally can take because I'm retired. On the other hand, I don't have to work hard at the milonga itself an can enjoy dancing if I like.
I suppose many DJs don't read the floor either, but rather listen to their own music. And so, based on their own current gut feeling, they get the impulse to provide variety in one direction or another. That's exactly what you can do beforehand, by listening to your playlist of (currently) favorite songs in private and arranging them until you find a balanced mix. Of course, that listening takes a lot of time, which I personally can take because I'm retired. On the other hand, I don't have to work hard at the milonga itself an can enjoy dancing if I like.
opendoor
Forum Master
I agree with you, the work of the person who tweaks the knobs during the milonga is totally overrated. The achievements of tango DJs are invisible:
- They complete discographies,
- They value arrangers more than orchestra leaders,
- They know about first editions and reissues,
- They recognize incorrectly tagged tracks,
- They buy expensive hardware to optimize the sound,
- They deal with room acoustics and transmission technology,
- They are interested in the historical development of milongas,
a.s.o
JournalInTime
Forum Master
The tango DJ's role is too variable for a single, generic description to be of any value. In just the 7-8 places where I dance in my city, we have DJs who fill many different roles:
• House fixtures, brought in because they have well-known preferences and tandas that appeal to that studio or milonga's regulars. They have enough different tandas that any given milonga has time for only 30-40% of the total . . . but attend for a month or two and you'll eventually hear it all, twice. Their role is brand recognition and marketing for the milonga: "Come to Place X because DJ Q plays A, B, C, and D, which is the soundtrack of our social club!"
• People brought in for their charisma and/or dance skills. They, too, represent marketing, but the USP is different: "Come to Place X because DJ Q is a pleasant (and good-looking, and well-dressed, and popular, and . . .) person who will talk with and maybe even dance with you!" They announce tandas loudly, throw their hands in the air, and run the milonga like a nightclub. Many such DJs are knob-twiddlers with only the average dancer's knowledge of tango music . . . yet the regulars happily overlook that, while visitors from away come to party with the cool friend they met at a festival.
• Technophiles with all the gizmos and gadgets. They arrive with an expensive computer optimized for deejaying, their own sound board and cables, and gear like their own speakers, a projector to display the current and upcoming tandas, and lighting systems. They may or may not know the music, but they know how to optimize the acoustics and often the lighting of the room for an engaging evening. These people are relatively rare because few milongas here let DJs plug in anything but a computer – usually, you have to use the studio's board, speakers, lights, etc. But where they do show up, they have a following like the previous category, because "puts on a good, high-tech show" seems to have as much marketing pull as "cool and fun."
• Tango musicologists and/or musicographers who know the music in breadth and depth – they can tell you what year this version was recorded in, who arranged it, who is playing each instrument, and often weird stuff like what kind of recording apparatus was used and how many records were cut. A lot of them fall into the traps of playing unrecognizable deep cuts that should've stayed forgotten (because they're undanceable), and trying to "teach" dancers the music (frowned upon here). They have small fan clubs of connoisseurs, so they have some marketing power, but drastically less than the three previous categories . . . the "happens outside the milonga" stuff like amassing libraries, fiddling with tracks, and knowing the history of tango and/or its music has almost no appeal to the vast majority of our dancers, and organizers know this and hire appropriately.
• Fallbacks who don't cost much or anything at all. The studio or event is a "cultural nonprofit" or doesn't have much money, and so the owner or owner's friend, a member of the board or collective, or even a regular dancer who volunteers is all the DJ they can afford. This person is present purely to ensure that music is played as cheaply as possible. They might eventually develop more advanced DJ skills if they do it often enough, but I've encountered few who can't plug a computer into a sound board, who mix Tanturi with Di Angeles or vals with milonga in the same tanda, who forget cortinas, etc.
There are also rarer outlier categories, like DJs who bring people in because they're new or from away or back from away, and dancers are curious, and DJs who trade on having worked in prestigious venues or at prestigious events, which appeals to a certain kind of tango snob.
And then there's every possible mixture of the above. I know of one house fixture who is subversively a musicologist, one charismatic DJ who is not-so-subversively a musicologist, a house fixture who is also charismatic and the place's fallback, a technophile who trades on prestigious past gigs, a fallback who is a not-so-great musicologist, and many others.
However, what consistently matters is marketing pull – how many dancers that DJ's name can bring in – which is entirely a function of what most of the dancers in the area find important at milongas. In my city, that's overwhelmingly "consistent tandas played by a popular person," not "curated tandas played over a good sound system by a knowledgeable person." The audiophile-dancer intersection is a very small, very lonely set here. If there's a second-place concern after marketing pull, it's the other side of profitability: low cost. House-fixture and especially fallback DJs cost less, the former because charging a low price is usually how you become a house fixture, the latter because they're usually not paid at all.
All of this is in the context of regular weekly milongas. Balls, encuentros, festivals, marathons, and live music events with DJs between sets have completely different needs. But collectively, they account for a tiny percentage of the average dancer's exposure to DJs.
• House fixtures, brought in because they have well-known preferences and tandas that appeal to that studio or milonga's regulars. They have enough different tandas that any given milonga has time for only 30-40% of the total . . . but attend for a month or two and you'll eventually hear it all, twice. Their role is brand recognition and marketing for the milonga: "Come to Place X because DJ Q plays A, B, C, and D, which is the soundtrack of our social club!"
• People brought in for their charisma and/or dance skills. They, too, represent marketing, but the USP is different: "Come to Place X because DJ Q is a pleasant (and good-looking, and well-dressed, and popular, and . . .) person who will talk with and maybe even dance with you!" They announce tandas loudly, throw their hands in the air, and run the milonga like a nightclub. Many such DJs are knob-twiddlers with only the average dancer's knowledge of tango music . . . yet the regulars happily overlook that, while visitors from away come to party with the cool friend they met at a festival.
• Technophiles with all the gizmos and gadgets. They arrive with an expensive computer optimized for deejaying, their own sound board and cables, and gear like their own speakers, a projector to display the current and upcoming tandas, and lighting systems. They may or may not know the music, but they know how to optimize the acoustics and often the lighting of the room for an engaging evening. These people are relatively rare because few milongas here let DJs plug in anything but a computer – usually, you have to use the studio's board, speakers, lights, etc. But where they do show up, they have a following like the previous category, because "puts on a good, high-tech show" seems to have as much marketing pull as "cool and fun."
• Tango musicologists and/or musicographers who know the music in breadth and depth – they can tell you what year this version was recorded in, who arranged it, who is playing each instrument, and often weird stuff like what kind of recording apparatus was used and how many records were cut. A lot of them fall into the traps of playing unrecognizable deep cuts that should've stayed forgotten (because they're undanceable), and trying to "teach" dancers the music (frowned upon here). They have small fan clubs of connoisseurs, so they have some marketing power, but drastically less than the three previous categories . . . the "happens outside the milonga" stuff like amassing libraries, fiddling with tracks, and knowing the history of tango and/or its music has almost no appeal to the vast majority of our dancers, and organizers know this and hire appropriately.
• Fallbacks who don't cost much or anything at all. The studio or event is a "cultural nonprofit" or doesn't have much money, and so the owner or owner's friend, a member of the board or collective, or even a regular dancer who volunteers is all the DJ they can afford. This person is present purely to ensure that music is played as cheaply as possible. They might eventually develop more advanced DJ skills if they do it often enough, but I've encountered few who can't plug a computer into a sound board, who mix Tanturi with Di Angeles or vals with milonga in the same tanda, who forget cortinas, etc.
There are also rarer outlier categories, like DJs who bring people in because they're new or from away or back from away, and dancers are curious, and DJs who trade on having worked in prestigious venues or at prestigious events, which appeals to a certain kind of tango snob.
And then there's every possible mixture of the above. I know of one house fixture who is subversively a musicologist, one charismatic DJ who is not-so-subversively a musicologist, a house fixture who is also charismatic and the place's fallback, a technophile who trades on prestigious past gigs, a fallback who is a not-so-great musicologist, and many others.
However, what consistently matters is marketing pull – how many dancers that DJ's name can bring in – which is entirely a function of what most of the dancers in the area find important at milongas. In my city, that's overwhelmingly "consistent tandas played by a popular person," not "curated tandas played over a good sound system by a knowledgeable person." The audiophile-dancer intersection is a very small, very lonely set here. If there's a second-place concern after marketing pull, it's the other side of profitability: low cost. House-fixture and especially fallback DJs cost less, the former because charging a low price is usually how you become a house fixture, the latter because they're usually not paid at all.
All of this is in the context of regular weekly milongas. Balls, encuentros, festivals, marathons, and live music events with DJs between sets have completely different needs. But collectively, they account for a tiny percentage of the average dancer's exposure to DJs.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
I'd compare the DJs in my big, long post to restaurants:
• House Fixture: Longstanding midrange eatery – beloved by the locals for generations – that has had almost the same menu since its opening. Always full, mostly with people from the neighborhood. A "third place."
• Charismatic: Downtown spot known for attractive waitstaff, cool interior design, flair bartending, and see-and-be-seen cachet. Oh, and there's also food, I guess. Always full, usually with younger partiers.
• Technophile: High-end venue with innovative (but carefully calculated to be accessible!) menu items made by a known local chef. Always full, usually with self-professed "foodies" and wealthy professionals.
• Musicologist: Experimental restaurant with menu items that only fans of "deconstructed sushi-Ethopian fusion" or whatever find accessible. Gets great reviews, yet is rarely full and usually bankrupt before long.
• Fallback: McDonald's – cheap and always available.
• New/From Away: The new place, regardless of its style or chef. People come at least once out of curiosity.
• Prestigious: Any restaurant that gets an international celebrity chef for a while. People come for the chef, not the place, and stop coming when the chef leaves unless another celebrity steps up.
When I dine out, I favor longstanding local places, but occasionally go to innovative or new places. I avoid fallbacks as unhealthy, trendy hipster spots as annoying, and weird experimental places as inedible, and I can't afford prestige spots. When I dance, I favor house fixture, technophile, and new/from away DJs, and avoid fallbacks with no skill and tiresome "teaching musicologists" who play undanceable deep cuts; so, there's considerable overlap with my dining-out habits. The main departures are that while I avoid trendoid restaurants, I like charismatic DJs who turn the milonga into a party, and while I cannot afford prestige restaurants, I can afford milongas with prestige DJs, and check them out just to see what the hype is about.
• House Fixture: Longstanding midrange eatery – beloved by the locals for generations – that has had almost the same menu since its opening. Always full, mostly with people from the neighborhood. A "third place."
• Charismatic: Downtown spot known for attractive waitstaff, cool interior design, flair bartending, and see-and-be-seen cachet. Oh, and there's also food, I guess. Always full, usually with younger partiers.
• Technophile: High-end venue with innovative (but carefully calculated to be accessible!) menu items made by a known local chef. Always full, usually with self-professed "foodies" and wealthy professionals.
• Musicologist: Experimental restaurant with menu items that only fans of "deconstructed sushi-Ethopian fusion" or whatever find accessible. Gets great reviews, yet is rarely full and usually bankrupt before long.
• Fallback: McDonald's – cheap and always available.
• New/From Away: The new place, regardless of its style or chef. People come at least once out of curiosity.
• Prestigious: Any restaurant that gets an international celebrity chef for a while. People come for the chef, not the place, and stop coming when the chef leaves unless another celebrity steps up.
When I dine out, I favor longstanding local places, but occasionally go to innovative or new places. I avoid fallbacks as unhealthy, trendy hipster spots as annoying, and weird experimental places as inedible, and I can't afford prestige spots. When I dance, I favor house fixture, technophile, and new/from away DJs, and avoid fallbacks with no skill and tiresome "teaching musicologists" who play undanceable deep cuts; so, there's considerable overlap with my dining-out habits. The main departures are that while I avoid trendoid restaurants, I like charismatic DJs who turn the milonga into a party, and while I cannot afford prestige restaurants, I can afford milongas with prestige DJs, and check them out just to see what the hype is about.
Oh, usually the obscure stuff is danceable because it has a clear pulse, it's just not good music from an aesthetic point of view.
opendoor
Forum Master
Sorry, but I don't think the "undanceable" thing should be a topic of conversation between educated, musical and tolerant people. Too often this has meant a call for the tango police.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
"Danceable" and "undanceable" are best avoided as a topic of conversation because they're subjective terms, and subjectivity can lead to arguments. For instance, "it has a clear pulse" wouldn't have crossed my mind as "danceable," because I'm a melody-countermelody dancer who gives time, steals time, dances continuous rather discrete movements, etc. in order to express dynamics, fantasies, grace notes, and so on in the music, the singer's vibrato and enunciation, and many other things that are difficult to interpret as being related to pulse. For me "danceable" means "highly textured," so a very regular, military piece with no layering, rubato, tempo shifts, and whatnot would be "undanceable." But I realize that other people would consider my definition unacceptable . . . and some of them would argue with me (and some have, claiming I'm clueless about music while overlooking that I'm basically a mathematician).
On the other hand, "danceable" and "undanceable" absolutely are fair standards for deciding to attend a particular DJ's milonga, because however educated or musical or tolerant you might be, essentially all but one or two people at a given milonga are there to dance. If they find the music undanceable, they'll avoid that DJ the next time! I have three or four names on my local blacklist for playing nothing but music that feels like a very regular 1-1-1-1-1-. . . without accents, syncopations, or other variations from start to finish. If I wanted to dance to the drum of my washing machine, I'd have stayed home.
The line blurs when somebody puts you on the spot. I prefer not to judge others for their opinions (and they're only that) of "danceable" and "undanceable," because I prefer to avoid arguments, but if someone asks me if I like a particular DJ and plan to go to the milonga tonight, I'm going to be honest. Honesty includes, "Yes, because they play lots of music that I find danceable, especially vocal pieces, Biagi, and post-Golden Age 'radio tangos' by Salamanca and Varela," or, "No, because they play lots of simplistic early Golden Age music that I find undanceable, and cheat me out of valses and milongas."
Yeah, but I'm just using a lowest common denominator standard here. personally I can dance to literally anything I find pleasant to listen to - some is not that fun to dance to but I still can interpret it. Therefore my #1 criterion as a dancer is beauty, which is to a certain extent subjective, but not totally so.
If i'm DJing obviously I play based on what I think the people present want to dance to (having already pre-filtered out all the music that i don't think is sufficiently beautiful). I don't judge whether they are able to interpret the music satisfactorily, I merely observe whether they want to dance to it or not.
btw the top tells for reading the room are:
- when people that were previously disengaged immediately start looking for a partner when the first song starts playing, or the reverse
- when people force fast rhythmic dancing that is out of character to a lyrical piece, or the reverse
- when people that were previously disengaged immediately start looking for a partner when the first song starts playing, or the reverse
- when people force fast rhythmic dancing that is out of character to a lyrical piece, or the reverse