What are the technical elements of a pleasant embrace?

[Bailango]

It would be interesting to know which of these differences would be subjective and which would be objective criteria. I know from my own experience that crises change the way we look at everything. Since my career was stopped by an injury, my view of tango in all of its aspects has dramatically changed.

most of the questions I was enquiring require replies that tend towards objective.

Our experiences borne out of that objective reality are very subjective. There are too many variables that contribute to subjectivity.

 

[Bailango]

Our experiences borne out of that objective reality are very subjective. There are too many variables that contribute to subjectivity.

I know from my own experience that crises change the way we look at everything. Since my career was stopped by an injury, my view of tango in all of its aspects has dramatically changed.

Yes, there are many things that can change the way we look at things. For example a new milonga I went to last weekend had big round tables around the floor. Big round tables that can with 8-9 chairs. I quickly figured out most people were in couples. Some real life couples, Some with dance partner. Out of 45-50 dancers the rough break down was:

1. 5 to 6 solos like me (only one solo follower who came by herself).
2. Two leaders who were taxi dancing (I know when they are taxi dancers) with respective partner.
3. More number of people I never seen before than usual.
4. No groups that I could identify.

My immediate thought were:

1. Oh bother, the cabaceo is going to be difficult. All the people are seated at round tables. It is difficult to sight a person for cabaceo as not only do you have to scan 180 degrees but them too have to be scanning. When they are chatting, they are not scanning. My table was sandwiched between the two tables on my side. There there 4 tables across the dance floor on the other side about 20 feet away. Round table + distance will make cabaceo more challenging.
2. Too many people with their own partners.
3. I might leave early for above two reasons.

Actual result:

1. Out of three couple at my table, I danced with two of the them. With cabaceo ofcourse. I never seen them before.

2. I could only cabaceo one from a different table on my side. We were seated with our backs facing one another.

3. I managed to cabaceo about 4 from the other side. Tried to cabaceo 3 others but they were not aware plus light conditions and intermittent line of sight.

The result was better than expected. That’s subjective because the DJ was good. I like the venue. Cabaceo worked. Dances were good given my lowered expectations. Few of the guys were asking out right verbally or walkaceo by going to the tables. Most did cabaceo. I came away having positive feelings about the milonga. It was nice. The new hosts were friendly and welcoming. Food was good. It was a relaxing low key Milonga which I like and no cliqueness. Floor craft was good. Will I go again? Not unless I am going with friend(s). Having to seat at a round table which makes cabaceo hard and too many people with their own partners is a big negative to drive an hour for the milonga. If I had to drive 10 minutes it would still be in my negative list.

Instead of driving for an hour I could have driven in less than ten minutes to one of the most popular milongas in the area. I rarely go there. I find floor craft and level of leaders too irritating out there. It is always leader heavy. My primary reason to avoid it. Secondary reason is that I don’t think the level of the followers is very great, the followers are too stoned face like at a funeral, don’t show too much interest of wanting to be asked.

 

[Bailango]

I agree.

I've had many "That was a great milonga!" / "Really? I had a terrible time." exchanges with people at the exit after La cumparsita, and countless conversations where someone else totally disagreed with me on which of our city's many milongas have the most welcoming hosts, best DJs, nicest spaces (considering factors such as size, acoustics, floor, and air conditioning), friendliest dancers, most skilled dancers, and so on. Plus of course a person's universe doesn't stop at tango. Health, family, friends, romance, work, finances, and all the rest put tango in a context.

One of my tango friends judges milongas by how many dancers above her self-assigned level invite her to dance – her argument being that after all the time and money she has invested in tango, she's "entitled" to dance with them. Yet her idea of who is good is bizarre, a lot of people with stooped postures, uncollected legs, and overactive arms. She's in an on-again, off-again relationship with a man she doesn't like to dance with. Despite having considerably more disposable income than I do, she complains when she spends money on an event that doesn't meet her standards. So, she likes milongas where slightly weird dancers line up to dance with her, and where her sometimes-boyfriend isn't, and sees ones with competition for good dancers, and slightly higher entry fees, as bad. When tango visitors come to town, she shows them her idea of the best milongas, which are mostly the milongas I try to avoid . . .

. . . and she avoids my favorite, her line being, "Well, of course you like it there! It's full of women who want to dance with you, and the hosts, DJ, and half the dancers are your friends. When I go there, it feels snobby and cold, and there's nobody to dance with."

Definitely different universes right outside my door.

I disagree wrt to the context because my reference was about completely different characteristics of the scene itself. It is more on the scale of difference between left hand driving with mostly bigger size cars on the road compared to right hand driving with mostly small size cars on the road. Irrespective of which of the two place you drive on, we could have similar positive or negative behavior of other drivers and cars around us.

I can relate and agree with how same event can be experienced diametrically opposite. Or similar experience but opposite opinions.

 

[opendoor]

..the most popular milonga... I find floor craft and level of leaders too irritating... It is always leader heavy... the followers are too stoned face like at a funeral, don’t show too much interest of wanting to be asked..

And yet it may be that the sum of your experiences influences the objectivity of your view:

My penultimate girlfriend always complained that certain milongas were too follower heavy. Once we were at one of these milongas at different times and didn't meet. I later told her that I left after 15 minutes because there was an unbearable surplus of leaders. But then she got upset and complained: it was exactly the other way around, hardly any leaders and an unbearable surplus of women lined up on the side of the dance floor waiting to dance. Not much time had passed between our times of presence. So I assume comparable conditions. However, I didn't see the followers lined up. I probably didn't want to dance with them or do experiments or any acts of mercy. Most likely my target group wasn't there and at the same time there was too much male competition.

 

[itwillhappen]

the objectivity of your view:

Maybe that's a contradition in itself?

 

[opendoor]

..a contradition in itself?

Of course, but only if you identify the "self" as a "subject". There are other solutions to overcome the subject-object split in philosophy. But that would be off topic.

 

[Bailango]

And yet it may be that the sum of your experiences influences the objectivity of your view:

That’s possible. I compare my notes with others. Both who like and may not like that milonga. If I think DJ is good I ask others what they feel about the music. If I think DJ is bad, I ask others what they think. Without priming so that they don’t agree with me to be polite, I don’t reveal what I think till I hear what their opinion is. The same on other aspects like level of cliquiness, ease of cabaceo, floor craft, etc. Many times people will share without being prompted.

I am usually not in the minority, therefore not at outlier. What differs is the same observation leads to different coloring. I may not care a lot about the quality of the floor but many followers may not like it. I may care about the floor craft but others won’t mind it being bad (bad by their own admission, not mine).

As for the leader heaviness, I actually count and take pics That settles disagreement if anyone thinks or “perceived” others wise.

I can’t remember last time in ten years I attended a workshop or class where there was an extra follower. It is almost always at least two extra leaders. So when I hear other leaders complain that the local ladies are not interested in practicing or improving, I can sort of agree.