What do dancers want?

[joshmclearphoto]

Hello all,

I came here after photographing my first Ballroom Dance event at Hartwick College this past spring and browsed for a while, but finally decided to sign up. I never knew that dancing could be so competitive and so exhausting. The amount of dancing and variety of dances that you do in a single day is beyond what I could have imagined before this event. It was my first Ballroom event ever, and to photograph it was a fun new challenge.

I really enjoyed the event, and from the comments I received from many of the dancers at the event, they enjoyed me being at the event and loved the pictures. I have been contacted to do another Ballroom dance event and even though this is a much smaller event, I was wondering if you as competitors could answer a few questions that pertain to photographers at events.

First, do you notice photographers at events? If you notice them, is it because of the constant flashes? Do the flashes bother and/or distract you?

What kind of pictures are you looking for? (The only dance related tips dancers have given me is to get all of the dancers lines in the picture.)

In this digital age, do you prefer to get a print, or a digital copy of the photo for your computer so you can post it to online communities, print it at a *-Mart, or send it in emails?

How likely are you to purchase a picture from an event?
Are you more likely to purchase a picture if you can have it printed at the event and take it home that day?

Thank you guys for any answers you may give me. If you have any other advice or tips, please let me know.

Josh

 

[latingal]

It was my first Ballroom event ever, and to photograph it was a fun new challenge.

Welcome to the ballroom community and DF Josh!

First, do you notice photographers at events? If you notice them, is it because of the constant flashes? Do the flashes bother and/or distract you?

I generally do not notice photographers while dancing on the floor unless I happen to be at the edge of the dance floor and we end up face to face. I do not remember ever having a problem with being blinded by flashes, perhaps that may be because the photographers are using a longer lens and therefore don't normally take pics at a close range (where the flash might blind you?)...

What kind of pictures are you looking for?

I would assume that the most sought after pics are those that show the subjects at their best (either capturing lines or emotions/attitudes)....since the majority of it I assume would be lines, it is important to try to time the pics to the full extension of whatever movement is being performed. Familiarity with the dance style you are photographing will help....

In this digital age, do you prefer to get a print, or a digital copy of the photo for your computer

I like it best when the photographer offers both a print and the electronic copy....

How likely are you to purchase a picture from an event?

I almost always check the pics the photographer may have caught of me at the comps. Again, I will buy photos if the photographer has been successful in capturing great lines or something that conveys a mood/attitude from the dance(s).

One thing though....I normally find that the biggest aggrevation about buying pics at comps is the reviewing process. If the vendor has not made enough hard copy print books or computers available for the dancers to view, long waits to see the pics are quite possible and very frustrating. It's great if the vendors make the pics available online for viewing/purchasing after the comp too. That way if the wait is too long to review the pics, I just wait until they are online and browse/purchase at my leisure.

Are you more likely to purchase a picture if you can have it printed at the event and take it home that day?

I guess it would depend if the quality of the print would suffer. I would want a good quality print, adjusted/cropped as necessary during the printing process. I would guess that pics printed onsite might not receive as much attention in the printing process as ones done offsite at the photographers leisure? I don't mind a reasonable wait to receive prints in the mail...

Good luck to you Josh....

 

[Joe]

The only flashes I really notice are the kind used by Igor Offenbach at the MAC, where there are large flashes set up all around the room that go off simultaneously. It's really annoying.

 

[White Chacha]

The only flashes I really notice are the kind used by Igor Offenbach at the MAC, where there are large flashes set up all around the room that go off simultaneously. It's really annoying.

But I bet the photos are way better. On-camera flash is a beast. A really fast lens is an asset here (but expensive). That way you need less flash and can have images with better lit backgrounds. Good sports photography equipment seems to be the key.

Josh, it wold be great if you'd be willing to share some samples of your work!

 

[joshmclearphoto]

Thanks

Thanks to all that have replied so far.

As for the flash comment, because I had never even seen a ballroom comp before, for the first one, I was walking the perimeter with a long fast lens and not using flash, while I had an assistant walking the perimeter with a shorter lens and a flash so we could get a variety of shots. I seemed to enjoy the pictures without the flash more.

I definitely learned throughout the day as dances took place, and I enjoyed the progression of the newer dancers to the more experienced dancers.

As for equipment, I shoot with Canon DSLRs (1D mk2, 20d, and now a 30d) and have really fast long lenses (70-200, 300, 400) because of the sports work that I do for newspapers and other businesses. I was told by one of the first dancers to see the pictures, that I took too many close up pictures and that I should focus more on the bodies. I am working on getting some faster wider lenses as I have never needed them before, as I feel I missed some oppurtunities, and again, the second camera with the flash did not produce pictures that I was 100% pleased with all the time.

With the onsite vs. offsite pictures, at the first comp, I only had a low volume 4x6 printer, and gave the organizers a team picture for the goodie bags of each team at the event. I now have some larger format higher volume printers and may be able to start offering sales at the events. I would not print pictures without first editing the image, as far as color, sharpness and cropping. Even with the pictures that I post online which have not been edited, I have it set up so that when an order comes in, I go in, find the image in my drive rack, edit it, and upload it to be printed and shipped. It is usually shipped within 48 hours of receiving the order. Also, I did not have any way to display pictures at the event for competitors to look at.

Would you be more likely to look at the pictures when you got home if you had at least seen some pictures at the event?

It will not let me post a link to pictures so if you would like to see the pictures from the event, you can go to my homepage in my profile, and on the right hand side, there is a link to the Hartwick College Ballroom Dance Competition that will take you to the pics.

I have a favorites folder somewhere here on one of the drives, so I will post a gallery of those later so you don't have to wade through all of the pics.

Thank you again for everyones comments.

Josh

 

[chachachikka]

Hi Josh! Welcome to DF! His work can be found from a link on the Hartwick Ballroom Dance Team website. Since I can't post a link in this thread, just google for "Hartwick Ballroom Dance Team" and then click on "Competition" and it's the 2nd link at the top "comp photos", right under "comp results". Thanks again Josh for photographing our comp, I'm glad to hear that you are getting other requests to do ballroom photography. (For his first time photographing a ballroom event, I thought he did an AMAZING job!) Welcome to the wonderful world of ballroom photographing, a beautiful sport with lots of great chances to capture some amazing photos in action. If you haven't seen it already, I'd recommend taking a look at the funny photos thread... just browsing through some of those will give you quite the laugh... Anyone have that thread to link?

The main trick to getting good ballroom shots is to time your click to the music. For someone that hasn't dance before and can't always predict the flow of movement or what will come next... the best suggestion I could give you would be to capture 'phrasing' in the music. Capture on beat shots because the moment on the beat is when the dancers will be hitting those lines and great poses. Dancers with musicality are easy to photograph because they are pretty predictable.
If you are still at Hartwick next year, feel free to join the ballroom club and learn some of the dances so you'll have an idea of how to predict movement. A quick and easy guide is that Smooth and Standard dances (long dresses and guys in tuxes) move around the floor counter-clockwise. For the most part, the movement continues to go along the 'line of dance' but sometimes can change direction sharply, poses are most often hit in the corners, or along the sidelines facing the audience/judges. Latin and Rhythm dances (short tight skirts and guys in skin-hugging all black) movements are quick and sharp, catching things on beat here is key, movement will change direction often, but dancers will stay within a given 'spot' on the floor so you don't have to go chasing a couple around the floor to capture them.

I never notice the flashes. And actually, I like interacting with the photographer when I see one. When they catch my eye, (and my partner's attention too...) we usually try to do a move that will have us both facing the photographer and smile... some photographers are really good at catching that moment that we set up for them, but others miss it and we can't stop dancing to pose... so it's hit or miss. Photographers don't really bother dancers unless they are in their way of dancing, so as long as you stay off the floor, you'll be fine. Dancers love to get their picture taken, why else do we put on all that makeup and jewelry and practice long hours to get everything to look good?

Long lines are good to capture, but also sometimes close shots... like just the top (head) and frame, or a close embrace in rumba.

Some photographers have books of all the photos they've taken at past comps displayed out on their table. Since you haven't done a lot of comps, I'd suggest just having a computer monitor run a scrolling slideshow of all the shots so far from that day so people can see it as they walk by. It'll catch their attention, and draw people to your table so you can talk to them and try to sell a photo on site. Or, often times someone might come to you to make a request for a certain shot with their partner or team, or of their dress (either for purposes of posting it to sell, or trying to get a fancy borrowed dress copied by getting pics of the design all over).

If you are interested in doing more ballroom comps, Cornell is having their comp on Sept 30th, and I don't believe they normally have a photographer at their event. You could offer them the same arrangement you did for us, and you could probably travel with the Hartwick team over to Cornell. They are likely going to take the college senate van.

 

[LXC]

First, do you notice photographers at events? If you notice them, is it because of the constant flashes? Do the flashes bother and/or distract you?

i don't notice photographers except when i'm in a corner doing a picture line and the camera is right by me. if the room is bright and the big flashlights in the corners are set up very high, they don't bother me at all. my favorite pictures were taken in such setting.

What kind of pictures are you looking for? (The only dance related tips dancers have given me is to get all of the dancers lines in the picture.)

picture lines are a good bet. i guess that's why they're called such. but i also like action shots of various kind because big pictures line are limited and it gets repetitive.

In this digital age, do you prefer to get a print, or a digital copy of the photo for your computer so you can post it to online communities, print it at a *-Mart, or send it in emails?

i much prefer digital. in fact i have stopped buying prints unless it's some out of the worldly good pic that i must have. that doesn't happen often, so i'd walk away.

How likely are you to purchase a picture from an event?
Are you more likely to purchase a picture if you can have it printed at the event and take it home that day?

if the pictures are good, and they're digital, i'll always buy some.

good luck with your business. i LOVE to see good pics!

 

[latingal]

Also, I did not have any way to display pictures at the event for competitors to look at.

Would you be more likely to look at the pictures when you got home if you had at least seen some pictures at the event?

Hi again Josh....if you don't have a way to show all your pics at the comp, I would definitely do something that would show SOME pics from the event. Unless people see the quality of your work (and the possibility of what you might have captured of them) they might not buy....you know out of sight, out of mind!

Have plenty of cards or flyers with your online url available!

Also, sounds like you did a college comp? I normally compete at NDCA comps who have an "official" photographer for the event. These types of events are usually held at hotels in ballrooms and the floor is large and not always well lit. I'm not sure what the college comps are like, but just wanted to point out there may be different working environments that you may be working in.

Again, best of luck to you....

 

[tanya_the_dancer]

Hi,

it's great that you are asking for input from us. I'll try to answer you question below.

First, do you notice photographers at events? If you notice them, is it because of the constant flashes? Do the flashes bother and/or distract you?

I notice sometimes. Flashes do not distract me, though.

What kind of pictures are you looking for? (The only dance related tips dancers have given me is to get all of the dancers lines in the picture.)

I look for pictures which show our lines best, and where I do not look too bad. Also, I will not buy a picture if it has too much of some other couple in it. For example, I've had one picture taken where someone's hand had stuck out into the photo and appeared to be grabbing my partner's butt. Of course, I did not buy that picture.

In this digital age, do you prefer to get a print, or a digital copy of the photo for your computer so you can post it to online communities, print it at a *-Mart, or send it in emails?

I prefer a digital copy of my photo. I no longer bother printing my photos, I just burn them on CDs. Although, I will not buy a locked "slide show" CD, with which there is nothing I can do except play it, and who knows, maybe the software used for the slide show will become obsolete and I will not be able to view those pictures a few years down the road.

How likely are you to purchase a picture from an event?

Very. I usually don't have anyone taking pictures of me, and even if I do, it won't be a camera which will produce good dancing pictures. But, I have a sizeable long-distance extended family, who love to see my dance pictures.

Are you more likely to purchase a picture if you can have it printed at the event and take it home that day?

Doesn't matter to me if it can be printed on the spot or has to be mailed, but I am even more likely to purchase a picture if I can have it put on a CD.

Thank you guys for any answers you may give me. If you have any other advice or tips, please let me know.
Josh

You're welcome

 

[Twilight_Elena]

Weeeell. What I would like in an event photo is a ppicture that has both me and my partner whole (not a leg outside the frame, etc.). Preferrably a picture of a cool move or a really good hit in the music. A picture that shows both of our faces is even better.
Now, I would buy a photo only if I could see samples. It would be a good idea to have a sample page ready at some point after the event, so that the dancers can choose their favourite pictures and order them. I don't particularly care about taking them home the same day, but I would like to order them the same day, if possible.
Oh, and definitely prints, not digitals.

T_E