What does contra mean?

[UKDancer]

In BR (& Latin), turns to the R (CW) are termed natural and turns to the L (CCW) are termed reverse. The reason the natural turn is easier to dance is due to the hold, where the lady is offset, somewhat, to the R. This is why there is no crossing of the feet in the forward (outside) turn action, whereas in the reverse turn the forward turn requires a foot crossing (just like the AT cruzada) in order to stay in the correct position in relation to partner.

As AT tends to have the follower directly in front of the leader, the same issue does not arise, and I would suggest that the CCW rotation in the giro is easier for the reasons already given: open side of the embrace/more room.

 

[Zoopsia59]

The most used, or "natural" direction, and the beginners one, is CW. On a dance floor it's easier because it has the lesser amount of rotation. Fewer dancers are able to do the CCW turn also.

Interesting... when I learned VW, we did CCW turns first and it's what many people around here default to. I'm ONLY speaking of VW though, not various turns in other dances like Fox Trot or swing. Maybe it's peculiar to the local studio. I also personally find the CW direction more awkward in VW.

If you are talking about skaters, and rotations in place, I don't think the LOD would have anything to do with it. But I know very little about that topic.

LOD hasn't much to do with freestyle skating, but if you go to a public session on a rink, the line of skate is CCW just like LOD. Some rinks do an announced segment of reverse direction skating (CW) but it often befuddles a lot of public skaters. One reason that's so is because it's more natural to a majority of people to arc to their left (CCW) and do "crossovers" of right over left. The other side is more awkward for some reason. Coaches have explained to me that it's because rotating CCW is more natural to more people, because more people are right handed (although as mentioned above, some skaters defy the dominant hand theory).

Or maybe rinks just borrowed a CCW standard from social dancing... but I think not, because I've seen too many people pick up the right-over-left crossover more easily than the left-over-right. (going backwards the reverse is true) and I learned to skate on a lake where I didn't get limited by CCW LOD.

It may be because the right leg is doing more work in both cases, and may have nothing to do with natural rotation though. I always found it easier in ballet to rotate on my left leg going either direction than on my right leg. When I started skating, that was true of my spins, but my jumps definitely needed to rotate CCW.

So in VW, the CCW rotation is also easier for me.

 

[Zoopsia59]

I would suggest that the CCW rotation in the giro is easier for the reasons already given: open side of the embrace/more room.

It's definitely what gets taught first in my experience. Another reason is that in parallel CE (where there is no "open" side) the leader can see that direction, and he can't see to his right. (which someone may have mentioned upthread)

 

[Subliminal]

It's definitely what gets taught first in my experience. Another reason is that in parallel CE (where there is no "open" side) the leader can see that direction, and he can't see to his right.

Yep, agree with this and ukdancer.

I think the hardest turn in tango to lead is CW CE with pivoting ochos. You can't see as well, no open side to help you, and you must make right arm adjustments to allow her hips to move and give her space to move into.

Using crossing ochos makes it a tad easier.

Still a pain in the rear for a beginning leader.

 

[Itachi]

Contra-giro is non-sense. There's the right turn (natural turn because of the posture) and the left turn (reverse turn).

If you want to get a good idea of what "contra" means, consider the promenade figure. There's the promenade, the back promenade, the counter promenade and (although I've never seen it) the counter back promenade.

 

[AndaBien]

It's definitely what gets taught first in my experience. Another reason is that in parallel CE (where there is no "open" side) the leader can see that direction, and he can't see to his right. (which someone may have mentioned upthread)

I don't know what you mean by this. I think there is always an open side, because the leader wraps his R arm around his partner, creating a closed side, and holds his partners R hand with his L, creating an open side.

I agree that the leader can see to his L, but can't see to his R.

 

[AndaBien]

Contra-giro is non-sense. There's the right turn (natural turn because of the posture) and the left turn (reverse turn).

If you want to get a good idea of what "contra" means, consider the promenade figure. There's the promenade, the back promenade, the counter promenade and (although I've never seen it) the counter back promenade.

I know the term "promenade" from other dances, but I've never heard it mentioned in AT. Well, maybe canyenque has a promenade position.

 

[Subliminal]

I know the term "promenade" from other dances, but I've never heard it mentioned in AT. Well, maybe canyenque has a promenade position.

I doubt it. I think canyenque and milonga were often danced sideways down lod, but not in anything resembling BR promenade.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Contra-giro is non-sense. There's the right turn (natural turn because of the posture) and the left turn (reverse turn)
If you want to get a good idea of what "contra" means, consider the promenade figure. There's the promenade, the back promenade, the counter promenade and (although I've never seen it) the counter back promenade.

I've no idea what a "Promenade" in tango would be. I've only heard that term in Ballroom. (Yes, I know we have been talking about ballroom too in this thread, but you specifically mentioned the contra giro, and giro is a tango figure)

 

[Zoopsia59]

Using crossing ochos makes it a tad easier.

My personal opinion is that if people learned crossing ochos first, we'd have fewer leaders over-using their arms to steer followers through ochos like a city bus, and fewer followers auto ocho'ing and doing wild pivots every time they think an ocho might be the thing to do (and continue doing) whether or not it was led.

But that's off-topic for this thread, and I've veered from the topic quite enough already in my posts to this thread!

 

[Zoopsia59]

I don't know what you mean by this. I think there is always an open side, because the leader wraps his R arm around his partner, creating a closed side, and holds his partners R hand with his L, creating an open side.

I agree that the leader can see to his L, but can't see to his R.

I meant simply that there may not be any opening in the connection of the bodies. Many embraces allow for space on the leader's left side, but I was specifically talking about a more milonguero (uh oh.. there's that word!) embrace where the connection is consistent across the body. (Flat on, parallel, directly in front, not offset or V'd).

 

[tangobro]

Does contra-giro, contra-enrosque mean clock-wise done?

yes - when I've heard that term it was used by teachers on the workshop/performance circuit, the teachers would use it when giving an explanation in Spanish. It was frequently lost in translation.

I think we had this discussion before. Too lazy to dig up the thread though. Contra boleos are lead with opposite motion. Ie, the leader changes rotation, and when his reversal meets the followers momentum through the embrace, it creates the snap. But it is also possible to lead a boleo where the leader matches the followers rotation, and changes direction with her. It is softer and more controlled, and seems to be taught less often. Most people learn the contra boleo as their default boleo.

This is what I was taught about the Contra Boleo also, but the other is my default. I learned the contra boleo from those who dance more OE with what I consider nuevo or performance styling.

 

[Nathan]

I have never heard this usage of contra, and your 2 posts together make no sense to me.

So...

Non-Standard = Contra

Contra = Counter

The Counter-CW molinete is standard

Therefore:
The clockwise molinete is the counter-molinete (aka "contra-molinete"?) and the counter-clockwise molinete is NOT the counter (contra) molinete?

uh....

Seriously?

Yes, you understood what I said perfectly! I guess you can think of contra things as "on the harder side" (not for everyone, just on average).

Personally, I think it's a rather unclear terminology, and I don't ever use it myself, but it's out there.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Counter Molinete isn't Counter-clockwise molinete

Yes, you understood what I said perfectly!

Personally, I think it's a rather unclear terminology

Ya think?

:doh:

 

[opendoor]

There's the promenade, the back promenade, the counter promenade and (although I've never seen it) the counter back promenade.

I know the term "promenade" from other dances, but I've never heard it mentioned in AT.

Not the term but the position: Espejo

So I wonder if the conter-promenade was what I call false-mirror (salida americana in parallel system)