What else can salsa borrow from the Dancesport world?
- Thread starter Pacion
- Start date
Danish Guy
New Member
Pacion said:
Funny one there. I remember the smile like crazy from the ballroom scene. Or the stiff frozen tango face. Never a look at your partner. But that’s long time ago.
I found pretty much everything I missed in ballroom present in salsa.
Unfortunately also some of the things I don’t like.
The only thing I can think of borrowing from the dance sport scene is the TV transmission time.
I truly have next to no knowledge of Dancesport, aside from what little I've learned here on DF. Eye contact is good for any dance...I've never thought of it as a Dancesport thing...but again...this isn't my area of expertise.
Eye contact to me is even beyond dancing...if the eyes are windows to the soul, then why not look deeply into them? Looking at the wrong person at the wrong time can get one shot or beaten - but at the right time with the right person it can be very wonderful...
All of my dance teachers have stressed eye contact...so again...not sure what you mean here...
SG
Pacion
New Member
scorpionguy said:All of my dance teachers have stressed eye contact...so again...not sure what you mean here...
In the salsa classes I have been to, t isn't stressed here in London :| If I ever dance with you, I think I will have to remember my sunglasses or dance blindfolded :lol:
Hmm... I suppose there are arguments for or against the perceived rigid structure of dancesport/ballroom. It's nice to have at least some structure for beginners to start out, but one of the most interesting competitions I've ever had a chance to see are Latin finals. There's certainly a different style of expression than salsa, but still... the sort of "jungle lust" that you can see in ballroom I suppose is just too funny to export into salsa.
I also guess i am not as knowledgeable about variations of salsa music itself, but ballroom/Latin dancing does have the "variety" enforcement of learning not just one style of dance. That means that the people who think that all salsa songs sound completely alike get bored (I get this complaint more from swingers than ballroomers, but that's probably sampling error). Ballroom at least has varieties of speed and expression that salsa does not always lend itself to. But then again, I could be completely wrong.
I also guess i am not as knowledgeable about variations of salsa music itself, but ballroom/Latin dancing does have the "variety" enforcement of learning not just one style of dance. That means that the people who think that all salsa songs sound completely alike get bored (I get this complaint more from swingers than ballroomers, but that's probably sampling error). Ballroom at least has varieties of speed and expression that salsa does not always lend itself to. But then again, I could be completely wrong.
borikensalsero
Moderator
etchuck said:
that's a nice observation, I'm not sure if this will help any, or just my comprehension skills but here is a verbal sampling of salsa.
Mid 60s to 1972 - Salsa didn't really have a homogenous sound, which means that parts of salsa music was from different genres. In 1972 it is said that salsa got its homogenous sound, finally incorporating all other genres into it without having to do away with the basic foundation.
From 1972 to 1976 I believe the salsa's first boom and commercialization started in 75. Salsa coming out of NY from this period even pre 72 was trombone driven, jump at you salsa, while there were 3 "schools" of thought on salsa, avant-garde, danceable/"lyrical" equality to instruments, and I forget the other... Still, they were all more of upbeat sound, talking of the harsh environments in the streets of el barrio. They spoke of crime, sex, politics, etc... The schools of style are heard by listening to the music from leaders of each school of though (Willie Colon, Eddie Palmieri, and Ray Barretto, you can throw pacheco there too)
Eddie Palmieri was the avant-garde of the group, almost creating undanceable music.
Willie Colon was the more equality of instruments to vocals, even having the vocals arguably be the leader in salsa, something latin dance music really never was.
Ray Barretto was in the middle of both, he could go either way, plus had a huge Jazz influence in his music. (you can leave him in the air, or add him to either group for he fits with both schools of thought, but I believe he was the leader of the third one)
Johnny Pacheco created the Matarenzisation of Salsa, where old cuban music was recreated with Salsa beats. Even though, I could be wrong, he wasn't thought off as leading the other school of salsa style, he did create an entire “new” feel to salsa.
Now, from the boom of salsa in the late 70s, there came more "mass-oriented" salsa, where the instruments took the background and the vocalist became the focal point, still this music was intricate and lively when compared to post 80's salsa. A lot of junk came out of this period, for the market was over saturated with FANIA hoping to capitalize on the hunger for salsa, eventually killing it.
From the early 80s came what is known as Conscious Salsa, a movement where Willie Colon and Ruben Blades took salsa to a socio-political status and created music with a conscience, speaking of “embetterment” for the latino world, el barrio, union of lations etc. This music was almost thought off as undanceable as well but managed to prolong salsa classic's life until the mid 80s.
Now mid 80s, actually beginning in 1982 was the raise of Erotic Salsa/Salsa Romantica, which was in totality driven by the vocalist, trumpets were set back, and the beat brought down because it took on the vocal equality of boleros and balads, the singers couldn't sing over the instruments so something had to be done, that something was taking the music down 20 notches to what was created then...
By this time Puerto Ricans had already been in the vanguard of Salsa, with Colombians, Dominicans, and Venezualans closely following. Each incorporating their regional style upon salsa, hence creating yet another difference in salsa styles. However, Colombians during this period, never followed the trend set by the ricans and new yorkers to create "erotic salsa" and kept on the avant-garde of Salsa, some of the best salsa during the 80s is said to have come from colombia, BTW, I don't feel colombian salsa, it just sounds so cumbiash to me.
In the 90s salsa took another turn, Tropical/Pop salsa was beginning to brew, which is what we had until the turn of the century, the metamorphosis of salsa... Actually the metamorphosis of son.
Today, there is yet another change in salsa, which is said to be coming out of cuba with the likes of los van van and Alberto Alvares, Cubans finally decided to pay attention to what salseros were doing, and arrived at gestations of the salsa or son sound... Now salsa is taking on a Pop/Reggea feel to it...
hopefully I have brought across that salsa isn't all the same… I’m still learning about the dates, and exactly what and when of salsa so I can very likely be off in some of the dates and info, but still that is a rough idea of what was going on, who changes took place and how regional tastes gave salsa new feels.
borikensalsero
Moderator
elegance!
peachexploration
New Member
borikensalsero said:
Boriken, do you mean Elegance in the way it's promoted, in the interpretation of the dancers or something entirely different? Just curious...
I think I know what you're getting at but....
borikensalsero
Moderator
peachexploration said:borikensalsero said:
Boriken, do you mean Elegance in the way it's promoted, in the interpretation of the dancers or something entirely different? Just curious...
The way the dancers present themselves on the dance floor... You look at a ballroom event and bang everyone looks their best... even if different worlds, you look at a salsa crowd and it looks like they just came out the gym. sweat pants, sweat shirts, then use sweat and not being able to dance in nice clothes, comfort, etc...
i don't know much of ballroom, well nothing, but It doesn't come across as those guys are complaining that dancesport should allow them to compete in sweat-pants because it is more comfortable, use sneakers as they can dance longer in them, all because of sweat and comfort...
If you asked me, if someone can't dance dressed up because of discomfort, then I think they ought to practice a little more, when you can dance you can dance regardless, comfort is a state of mind...
There is nothing worse than going to a hot salsa event advertised as dress to impress and people show up with ripped jeans, girls in hip huggers, tube tops, sweat pants, etc, ready to pump iron or run a marathon....
Yeap, we need a little more elegance...
peachexploration
New Member
borikensalsero said:
Yup! Thought so and very true.
I watch alot of dancers and take note of how their dancing changes in regards to what they wear. :wink:Great point Boriken - that's something I had not considered and we've discussed this a lot in the past.
I love to dress up when I go dancing...since I dress casually at work part of the fun is changing from "mr computer tech" to "mr. salsero"...just some nicer clothes that make me look and feel more confident in myself.
A friend asked me once about how people dressing up for Salsa, and i mentioned that some do, some don't. But I love it when I meet dancers who really put some effort into their attire...I remember meeting two Latinas at a big club one time...these ladies were dressed to the hilt...not overdressed nor undressed...but they looked great! I love to see people put some spice not only in their dancing, but their whole approach to it.
When we take the time to invest some care into what we do...it can make it that much better. 8)
SG
I love to dress up when I go dancing...since I dress casually at work part of the fun is changing from "mr computer tech" to "mr. salsero"...just some nicer clothes that make me look and feel more confident in myself.
A friend asked me once about how people dressing up for Salsa, and i mentioned that some do, some don't. But I love it when I meet dancers who really put some effort into their attire...I remember meeting two Latinas at a big club one time...these ladies were dressed to the hilt...not overdressed nor undressed...but they looked great! I love to see people put some spice not only in their dancing, but their whole approach to it.
When we take the time to invest some care into what we do...it can make it that much better. 8)
SG
Interesting... I guess I could transport that into swing as well. There is a certain attitude one can carry if you wear something that says, "umm..umm.umm... sexy". Lindyhop attire seems to say, "I just want to bounce around like I'm a teenage sugar addict."
I don't know if I see that many salsa dancers in sweatpants (granted, I don't see many ballroomers with purple headgear and shades either...), but I guess elegance wouldn't be too bad.
I don't know if I see that many salsa dancers in sweatpants (granted, I don't see many ballroomers with purple headgear and shades either...), but I guess elegance wouldn't be too bad.
cocodrilo
New Member
Wow! I'm glad I'm living in a country where the people are perhaps the best-dressed in the world! Never seen sweatpants or tube tops at a dance event. The ladies always look their best and the men wear nice slacks(not jeans) and shirts with collars(some T-shirts, but these are the sweaty guys!). I think that's how it should be for any social dance event!