What Is Tango Doing Right/Wrong: Recruiting and Retaining

Hunters, I experienced such guys in Salsa/Bachata communities more often.
Agree
They were interested about hunting more then dancing. Young, handsome and sometimes horrible dancers.
Salsa and swing have a similar demographic. However the least hunting I find is in WCS. In tango when there is, it is camouflaged mostly. There is something about Salsa and Bachata that attracts more hunters and creeps than any other dance.


Ladies were charmed, especially beginners, unable to recognize what game is played.
After crossing the threshold of absolute beginners most ladies do not fall prey to charms or good looks. Like elsewhere in the society they are not immune to fall for social status (instructors, top dogs at the socials, those men that get social validation, etc).

It is the beginners who are unable to read. I can’t count number of beginner ladies who fill thrilled that some man was paying attention to them, teaching them, and dancing with them more than two or three times. They are surprised when told by the regular leaders and followers that the man was preying on them.


TA should not be the only one thing binding us together,
True and usually it is not if two partners are in a stable relationship.
 
Salsa and swing have a similar demographic. However the least hunting I find is in WCS. In tango when there is, it is camouflaged mostly. There is something about Salsa and Bachata that attracts more hunters and creeps than any other dance
Because they’re the most accessible and they come from machismo culture.
They’re also the dances the easiest to just be a casual in and still have a good time (blues is also up there in terms of ease).
Tough to be a casual in tango unless you’re a young follower or are very social, otherwise you just won’t get dances in most communities (well, maybe not the dances you want).
 
Tough to be a casual in tango unless you’re a young follower or are very social, otherwise you just won’t get dances in most communities (well, maybe not the dances you want).

There are plenty of communities out there where most, if not all, dancers aren't looking to get better or have a strong drive to improve; where the point of tango is much more about socialising and being around people. Granted, the age range tends to be much higher in those communities, but that's the best example I know of a "casual" tango community.

As for individual "casual" dancers, well, it's easy to be a casual dancer in any community, though probably more difficult than most other social dances. Even here in (Central) London, I've seen some casual dancers everywhere — they tend to dance with other casual dancers and friends. We don't move in the same circles, but they definitely exist.

I'm not placing beginners in this category of "casual", but I'd place people there who've been dancing for a few years or more and have no inclination to get better. The line does get blurred though — there are plenty of dancers who are happy with where they're at and whom I can't really call casual, so there's an argument for some maximum standard of skill to be made.

As for the ability to get dances you want, well, they've made their choice.
 
Speaking as a man…

Huh!! Why?
If I was in search of a partner I would rather go to yoga class where women outnumber men 10:1 and there is less competition from other men. Out here I would join a running club. These are two activities where you are far likely to meet women and get to know them.
Everyone may have their own preferences. I found the yoga classes unhelpful, even with a gender ratio of 7:1 (there were a maximum of 8 of us). Perhaps it was also because I was in a relationship with the yoga teacher for a few years ... which I met at tango dancing!

The tango classes, on the other hand, were immediately "inspiring," but I was also well prepared and "top of the class." We bonded there, chatted during the class, sometimes rotated partners, and quickly got together for workshops.
Why do most people that complain not prefer a solo dance, like a line dance?
 
Speaking as a man…

If I was in search of a partner I would rather go to yoga class where women outnumber men 10:1 and there is less competition from..
It seems you don't do yoga. In my yoga classes, the proportion of men has risen to almost 50%, and they're all as old as I am.

Furthermore, yoga is an even more prudish environment than tango is. Salsa Cubana is still the most conducive environment for flirting. Tango really is a very difficult place, and flirting in yoga is practically impossible.
 
In my yoga classes, the proportion of men has risen to almost 50%
Might vary by area. I haven't done many, but the ones I have done were almost all women.

Highest proportion in any class so far was a ballet taster (which I did only to see if there was anything that might help my tango technique (and there was)): me, one other guy, and 28 women ...
 
It seems you don't do yoga. In my yoga classes, the proportion of men has risen to almost 50%, and they're all as old as I am.

Furthermore, yoga is an even more prudish environment than tango is. Salsa Cubana is still the most conducive environment for flirting. Tango really is a very difficult place, and flirting in yoga is practically impossible.

I thought the talk was about fertile grounds to find life partners and not flirting :D
 
Yep. And that isn't just the problem of the two people involved. The social strain is detectable by anyone with even a milligram of empathy, while the inevitable side-taking can add an unnecessary extra layer of divisiveness to an already cliquish dance. People playing "say nasty things about my ex," "avoid my ex," "don't dance with my ex," "let's leave because my ex is here," etc. make the milonga less fun for all. I'm sure some people are capable of emotionless clean breaks, but that's less a good thing and more a sign of some sort of sociopathy.
If a relationship last any significant amount of time (e.g. 2 months), people will know about it. And people talk, some will form opinions. Even if the couple is fine with each other, they will likely sense the opinions of others. This can make one or both members of the couple uncomfortable and likely one will leave that community or activity.

Long term members of the community also form opinions of the "hunters". These are often negative. But "hunters" who are constantly looking for one night stands will stick around regardless of the opinions of others. One of the social functions of the hunters is usually to ultimately repel the hunted who fall for them.
 
There are plenty of communities out there where most, if not all, dancers aren't looking to get better or have a strong drive to improve; where the point of tango is much more about socialising and being around people. Granted, the age range tends to be much higher in those communities, but that's the best example I know of a "casual" tango community.

As for individual "casual" dancers, well, it's easy to be a casual dancer in any community, though probably more difficult than most other social dances. Even here in (Central) London, I've seen some casual dancers everywhere — they tend to dance with other casual dancers and friends. We don't move in the same circles, but they definitely exist.

I'm not placing beginners in this category of "casual", but I'd place people there who've been dancing for a few years or more and have no inclination to get better. The line does get blurred though — there are plenty of dancers who are happy with where they're at and whom I can't really call casual, so there's an argument for some maximum standard of skill to be made.

As for the ability to get dances you want, well, they've made their choice.
There’s been a beginner follower that verbally asks everyone to dance and I’ve complied with it to be friendly, but I don’t know it’s been maybe 1-1.5+ years and she still dances like a 1-2 month beginner, along with constantly talking during the tanda. I began making excuses when she asked me to dance recently. We even talked about how snobby the tango community is… but she’s not doing herself any favors by just treating it as any other dance and not putting any effort into it to improve (she stopped taking classes a long time ago).
 
I don’t think ice breaker games work for social dancing.
I think ice breaker games rarely work for anything. They are often tedious. We did this at a work Christmas party that had a lunch. We also sat in tables of about 8. Our table of 8 did unite in agreeing the "ice breaker" games were totally annoying. Sitting people at group tables to eat works better than the ice breaker game.

People are there to want to dance. Find other ways like 2-song tandas and non-gamified ways to facilitate mixing of people. Take all the chairs and tables away :D put them in non-dance areas if you have to. That single thing will encourage more mixing.
They complain about not knowing names. There are simple solutions that work for all social dances and group lessons. Now, I'm going to resort the the much loathed writing construction: the list. Lists are boring reads. But if you are trying to suggest solutions for problems, a bullet list of solutions is necessary. Here's a start.
  1. If you are the studio or organizer, suggest name tags. (Heck, if you want to encourage people knowing your name and talking to you, bring your own name tag. Heck, you can add some extra stupid tid bit if you like. "I own cats!" Change it every dance. "If you lead a dip, I will kill you!", "I love dips!" Or if you brought your individual name tag, add, "What's your name?" Whatever you like! :) )
  2. If you forgot someone's name, admit it and ask. I do this all the time at group lessons. No one minds. No one. When I do remember, they are pleasantly surprised. But they don't mind I forgot because they all forgot everyone else's name and usually forgot mine. If they haven't forgotten it, they remember it slightly incorrectly. (Lucille? Louise? I just tell them that's pretty close and say the right name. I also tell them I intentionally try to remember and still have a hard time! )
  3. If you don't remember having ever seen them, introduce yourself. They'll usually tell you their name. (We will both usually forget. If you do, see 2 above.)
  4. Have some cheap free snacks, preferably in a quieter part of the room or gathering, but not too far from the dancing. (A neat trick... I know). One studio with good mixing happens to not have a drinking fountain and has water bottles by the snacks. Lots of people meet near the snack tables.
  5. Do pay attention to volume of music. It needs to be just loud enough to dance but no louder. This encourages conversation among those not dancing.
  6. If there is a possibility, encourage people to NOT dance with the same partner for more than two dances in a row. That may require leaving a little time for people to leave the floor and find new partners after each of the songs. Yes... I know. This is so not Tango where a three dance Tanda is the norm. Maybe you can do it if you announce "please, try to mix up your partners. We will not play in Tanda order" for a half hour or show. Or maybe this would drive away Tango dancers. But... well... the three dance Tanda tradition is a feature of tango that almost certainly results in less social mixing.
Lots of these are cheap and easy. Studios can supply name tags and make an announcement encouraging 2 and 3. If you can't do them, then skip that suggestion.

On the video:
Ok... now I'm listening a little while typing a comment. Minute 6 they are still discussing ice breaker tangas. (Honestly, it's not clear they know what problem they are trying to solve.) Ok... then they discuss a pot luck. Now back to ice breaker tanga.

Ok.... then "Chacarera". One points out when he started he didn't like that because he didn't know how to dance it. Yeah... great, add something no one knows how to dance. That will get people meeting each other. Just like line dancing. /sarc. Note: my husband loves line dancing. I have nothing against them. Only people not line dancing meet other people during a line dance!

I don't think their solutions are going to be universally helpful. Few are.
 
(she stopped taking classes a long time ago).
This is my red flag.

I put up with a lot of things that aren't my cup of tea, but deciding "I'm good enough that I no longer need to be coached, instructed, mentored, taught, etc.!", while I pour much time, money, and energy into study and practice, isn't one of those things. If a national champion who no longer competes and wants only to dance socially (and I know several people who fit that exact description) still takes master classes, attends teacher-teacher exchanges, has a tango coach, and practices, then somebody at a lower level than "national champion" or "teacher" definitely needs classes, coaching, and practice.

To be clear: I am fine with people deciding that they're skilled enough to be happy, ceasing to work, and just going out to dance. I'm NOT fine with them expecting me to dance with them. I want to dance with those who improve, not with those who coast. Level isn't relevant – only visible signs that they aim to raise their level. Someone who's at, say, 1 out of 10 and aiming for 10 out of 10 untold years down the road is a more pleasant person to dance with than someone who has been parked at 4 for years and has no goals higher than 4, whose dance I will soon fully explore and find about as exciting as oatmeal porridge.

I'm also wary of dancers who do want to improve but who believe that they can do so exclusively at the milonga by finagling free "lessons" out of partners. They may or may not improve that way, depending on their learning style and who those partners are, but that isn't the core issue. The core issue is that they're chattering on the floor, and the people who like to "teach" them are blocking the line of dance, when I'm trying to relax and enjoy a musical tanda that moves down the line of dance.
 
I think ice breaker games rarely work for anything. They are often tedious.
They are utterly tedious! We have an organizer here who also does coaching in workplaces. His "Let's stop the milonga to play a game!" moments shatter the evening's flow and mystique.
Now, I'm going to resort the the much loathed writing construction: the list.
As an editor of 30 years, I'll say that the list is loathed in non-technical writing only. In technical writing, it is the gold standard for organizing information. :D Forums like this one are essentially amateur technical writing platforms, whatever people might think.
If you are the studio or organizer, suggest name tags.
So simple, yet nobody does it. I think I'm going to buy a pack of sticky tags, wear one unbidden, and leave them and a pen near the entrance.
Have some cheap free snacks, preferably in a quieter part of the room or gathering [...] Do pay attention to volume of music. It needs to be just loud enough to dance but no louder.
I think the best compromise is to have a dance floor near the speakers and a break area away from them, in another room. I know some people dislike the separation because they believe it forces commitment to dancing or taking a break . . . but that's in their head. As much as I adore the cabeceo – and I do – there's a long tradition of people who are already having a conversation when excellent music starts enjoying the privilege of asking for a tanda as part of the talk. The cabeceo is for the room with the dancing. Replacing a social barrier with a low physical and acoustic barrier seems like a fair exchange.
If there is a possibility, encourage people to NOT dance with the same partner for more than two dances in a row. That may require leaving a little time for people to leave the floor and find new partners after each of the songs. Yes... I know. This is so not Tango where a three dance Tanda is the norm. Maybe you can do it if you announce "please, try to mix up your partners. We will not play in Tanda order" for a half hour or show. Or maybe this would drive away Tango dancers. But... well... the three dance Tanda tradition is a feature of tango that almost certainly results in less social mixing.
This is the only one I'd object to.

The aforementioned business coach tries these sorts of things from time to time. NOBODY likes it. The old guard find it an affront to tango tradition. The newcomers it's supposed to benefit find it chaotic.

I think that in tango, the best fix is three-piece tandas instead of four-piece ones, and longer cortinas. People sometimes grumble about those things, too, but they tolerate them, and these measures do encourage mixing.
Ok.... then "Chacarera". One points out when he started he didn't like that because he didn't know how to dance it. Yeah... great, add something no one knows how to dance.
Chacarera is a terrible icebreaker. People see this rigidly structured dance with lines and rules, one they've never learned, and feel utterly excluded by it. Tango is already hard to learn, and it's really three dances in one – tango, tango-vals, and milonga – each with its own substyles and forerunner dances (canyengue, candombe, etc.). Slathering on another dance related only by regional origin, not by musical tradition or steps, is intimidating and unwise.

"It's Argentine, so it belongs at the milonga!" is a big pile of . . . whatever. Not many AT dancers care all that much about Argentine culture. For them, tango is a dance and a musical style. They're not going to go all-in for other Argentine dances, start drinking Malbec, learn to say -ll as -j, etc. simply because they dance tango.

If organizers and DJs want to break the ice, they should play a few sets of cumbia, salsa, swing, and other music that allows freestyle dancing, and that feels like music a person might dance to at a nightclub when they go out to, you know, meet people. Anybody can clumsily two-step to such a tune, and if most of the crowd is equally mediocre, much ice is broken as the barrier of level comes down.
I don't think their solutions are going to be universally helpful. Few are.
My mantra since joining these forums has been "Everything varies by where you are."

There is an "international AT scene" that exists at encuentros, festivals, and marathons for the jet set, but it is characterized largely by its absence of anything that would offend anyone, and it isn't a community. It's a least common denominator of polite dancing as oppose to a spicy mélange that the locals adore but that visitors find tricky. Involving people locally means doubling down on the spicy mélange even when it isn't what you'd find at a festival somewhere, because your goal is to engage and keep locals, and build a local community where people know names – not to onboard locals into an international scene in which few of them can afford to participate anyway.
 
My first year there was a smaller milonga that did an ice breaker game where they formed two lines, for leads and followers, and they played a song or two and you swapped partners every 30 seconds. I actually really enjoyed it since I danced with people I normally didn’t dance with and the hosts and vibe of the whole milonga was just very friendly. I’m not sure how I would enjoy it now though being more experienced and more selective.

Actually I think if a milonga is known for that and that’s their gimmick it may be fine but to add that to an already established milonga wouldn’t work out.
 
I think if a milonga is known for that and that’s their gimmick it may be fine but to add that to an already established milonga wouldn’t work out.
Exactly. Gimmicks that touch directly on dancing must be integrated at the origin – or at least after a long pause and restart (e.g., the pandemic) – or they'll seem bolted-on and bizarre. That's just the way of the tango community, which is slow to adopt new thinking.

Gimmicks that are parallel to the dancing, like a separate break area or little name badges at the door that one can wear or not wear, are fine later on. The old guard at that event will of course brush past such things, and invite and dance the way they always did; however, they're not prime candidates for welcoming people anyway. Those who participate can do so without it affecting anybody's dancing, and their willing desire to participate is a sign that they're the right people to do the welcoming.

Sort of like holding optional mixers outside of working hours for new employees to meet old ones rather than holding on-the-clock events that everybody is obligated to attend, which simply irritate people who want to finish their work and leave, and give newcomers the bad impression that the workplace is full of irritable workaholics.

In any domain, you have people whose reason for being at a place is to do its primary activity, which they firewall from all the rest of their life and prefer to do in the company of likeminded cliques. You also have people who are more holistic in their approach to activities, and who welcome new people and experiences. You can't force them to mix with good results.
 

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