But it is important how it looks. Because many people do care about that. Especially people who can dance already.
What Is Tango Doing Right/Wrong: Recruiting and Retaining
- Thread starter JournalInTime
- Start date
But it is important how it looks. Because many people do care about that. Especially people who can dance already.
opendoor
Forum Master
My experience is the other way around. I once happened to look through a window and saw people dancing tango. I walked into the hall, a tanguera stood up, took me in her arms and I danced tango for the first time in my life. But ever since, I've struggled with the discomfort of the embrace. I think my posture, embrace, and gentleness make me a sought-after dance partner. However, I much prefer watching performances over dancing myself.
Last edited:
In NYC there are tango professional only group chats where they discuss topics such as scheduling for visiting teachers and when they need substitutes / djs etc.
There’s also a number of beginner focused classes and teachers, along with public classes in central park.
I imagine other cities might have similar group chats barring there’s not a ton of rivalry between teachers to the point where they’re not on speaking terms.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I see it all the same way, including my own case. I was there, and I'm in the front of the video at 1:09 in the pink shirt.
The whole point of these types of events is to dance comfortably and extensively together in close embrace. Musicality and restraint are much more important for this than technique. And on a Sunday afternoon at such an event, at the fourth milonga of five, the greatest danger is that you'll be performing tricks and messing around with strangers to make the dancing look dynamic. (And from my circle of friends, I'd estimate that at least one in five participants is going to put up with pain.)
Why should I (again) invest a four-figure amount in further dance lessons for such events? Cui bono? We're in the "recruiting and retaining" thread, where it's already been stated that the demands are too high and too sophisticated for social dancing. Many people have (quite contradictory) views on how to dance, what kind of lessons to take, how to behave, how to navigate, who to dance with, and how long.
Well, personally, I'm currently working on my dance technique independently of all of this — for my girlfriend and with my girlfriend. The opportunity is good, and it makes sense.
And in addition, yes, we hold private parties to hug and dance with our friends. And you, do you really do that or would you just prefer it?
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
Since retaining is part of this thread title, these sometimes “mellow” encuentros have a significant role to play in retaining long term. So many people would have left tango because of the snootiness and elitism, and instead find a super welcoming and friendly environment where everyone dances with almost everyone and people are considerate on the floor. There’s a reason many people who discover the subculture of encuentros ONLY go to encuentros. I’ve experienced it only this once, I’m happy I was invited to it, I had a great time and despite the looks of things in this particular video, I got a lot of wonderful dances with a lot of wonderful people. For now, while my body still feels young enough and my skill level is good enough to dance a lot at festivals and marathons, I plan to hold off with encuentros for now, but I have most definitely taken note of how welcoming this environment can be. I might not have to age out of tango after all.
Miranda, I am not sure if Encouentros play positive role for retaining of begginers. Encuentros have rules for dance skill level and often you need to be invited or recommended by someone who is already in. Second problem is suck-out efect for local milongas. Begginers often have no chance to experience unforgettable tanda with good dancers on milonga, because they are traveling between encuentros and marathones only.
I am not aware about such elitism in other communities like Salsa, Zouk or Bachata. Parties are for everybody, you need to just pay ticket and nobody cares about level of you dance, or if you ever go to dance or only drink behind bar.
I am not aware about such elitism in other communities like Salsa, Zouk or Bachata. Parties are for everybody, you need to just pay ticket and nobody cares about level of you dance, or if you ever go to dance or only drink behind bar.
Exceptionally slow! But probably the best we can have for tango, or any dance, 'evangelism' right now.
You probably have to look at the two major groups and need different strategies for each:
- Young, 20-30+, with no commitments, looking for a social life (and maybe a 'partner'), and friends.
- Pre-retirement, post-kids, looking for a social life either with a partner, or looking for partner(s), and being part of a social group.
Yes, there are some in-between, but it's less likely that someone with kids, with work pressures, trying to make ends meet, is going to find the time for dance unless that's their escape - as with a 'sport' (which has to be financially, and socially, affordable).The gym, or golf, or something, probably seems 'safer' than dancing with several potential 'partners' unless you're part of it too.
Certainly attracted by how it looks, but it also has to be perceived to be achievable (or bettered).
It all depends what you perceive as 'encuentros' that are 'mellow', as distinct from milongas, marathons, festivals...
I take your point that they become a 'safe space' away from some of the less attractive 'features' of the other forms of meet-up to dance.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t talking about retaining beginners but retaining people who’d otherwise have left tango.
I thought the retirement home description was accurate too, but I don't think I will ever want to attend.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Agreed, but everyone dances with almost everyone at an encuentro because they've been preselected already. The Vilnius/Riga marathons are close to encuentros too, and I've heard the same about them. Some marathons I've been to have been more open than local milongas simply because people assume some degree of quality if you are able to get in.
There are generally three main groups where tango has problems retaining:
1. Beginner leaders — It's hilarious when experienced followers complain about not dancing/not enough leaders/too many followers when they refuse to dance occasionally with beginner leaders and help retain them in tango. Even their follower peers aren't much use either, because they get to dance with more experienced leaders and complain about the lack of progress in beginner leaders because they know nothing about the sheer difficulty of leading when starting out.
2. Older women — aging out, as you say. You could solve this by getting older men to dance with women around their own age, but why would those men, when they could dance with someone younger? Very few beginners who start here remain in tango for the same reasons too. I'd say it's even harder than beginner leaders.
Maybe it's myself being cynical, but I very much doubt that the men at encuentros don't gravitate towards any followers who are more attractive/appear younger at all.
3. In-betweeners — a very nebulous category, but let's say dancers who've been dancing for a while, one to five years, and still haven't quite found or experienced anything that makes tango truly special for them, like it has for us. They're enjoying themselves at milongas, enough to keep going back, but it's sort of a teetering point, and soon they'll reach the point where they start thinking, is that what I really want to keep doing?
Usually, you get a growing sense of frustration too. I call them the intermediate pangs, where you stuck in this limbo where you don't really dance with "better" dancers, but are frustrated with the dances you do get, and you see no way out.
I was there, and I only made it through because most of my friends are in tango.
On snootiness and elitism, I can say I've had my fair share of that — I've been to the most elite marathon in Europe and had a bad time there!
And as a leader in general, I've been overlooked many a time because of my youth and lack of skill/experience. Can't get by with just my appearance, unfortunately.It's hard on most people. Rejection never really stops hurting, and (most) humans are social animals, even those of us who are highly introverted — it cuts deep.
What I work on is just accepting that people have different preferences, and it's okay to not want to dance with someone for whatever reason, since I obviously do the same too. Plus, I'm still open to dancing with them if they approach me. I do wish I could focus on appreciating the dancers with whom there is a lot of mutual enjoyment, but it's just human to focus on what you can't have.
Apropos of this, I wonder if there are equivalents of encuentros in salsa or other Latin social dances?
pianistamediano
Forum Master
It feels a bit presumptuous for me to be talking about encuentros when I'm half the average age there and dance mostly in the diametric opposites. I've stirred up quite the hornet's nest here. I'd just like to say that, on my part, while I am uninterested in encuentros on general, I am happy that so many dancers have managed to find a place of their own where they can experience enjoyable dances and be with like-minded people. It definitely staves off the loneliness I've seen in so many of my older relatives.
Ultimately, it is that happiness that matters most. Perhaps it's moving a bit too far into general hedonism and egoism and away from epicureanism, but I still think individual happiness should be one of the highest priorities in life.
I don't know if I'll resort to encuentros when I start hitting that age range; my opinion might change, of course, in 30-odd years, but there is so much more to life than tango. I might go if my friends/life partner [?] are there too, but that's about it.
Tango is relatively limited compared to the world of jazz and classical music, but it's still something I could spend a lifetime on. Something to think on, I suppose. Plus, what @Miradamiranda and @TTanguero have described and told me respectively about encuentros sound relaxing and joyous. If I can't keep my body in shape, that might be the right call, if I still desire to dance.
Ultimately, it is that happiness that matters most. Perhaps it's moving a bit too far into general hedonism and egoism and away from epicureanism, but I still think individual happiness should be one of the highest priorities in life.
I don't know if I'll resort to encuentros when I start hitting that age range; my opinion might change, of course, in 30-odd years, but there is so much more to life than tango. I might go if my friends/life partner [?] are there too, but that's about it.
Tango is relatively limited compared to the world of jazz and classical music, but it's still something I could spend a lifetime on. Something to think on, I suppose. Plus, what @Miradamiranda and @TTanguero have described and told me respectively about encuentros sound relaxing and joyous. If I can't keep my body in shape, that might be the right call, if I still desire to dance.
TTanguero
Forum Master
That's true, but it's much more about respect than it is skill level. The primary skill encuentros select for is the ability to dance small when needed on a crowded floor, with the level of technique this implies. The overarching criteria is respect for the códigos, from using mirada and cabeceo for invitations to respecting the ronda.
I was accepted into the first encuentro I applied for when I was five years into tango, and that's really more like four years when we take into account the pandemic. Once you've been accepted into one, then it tends to be very easy to get accepted into others.
TTanguero
Forum Master
You may have a while to wait until you hit the average age range for encuentros, but the youngest dancer I have encountered in one was about twenty-one, so you might be a bit old for her ...
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Yes, well, I'd rather go to events where that isn't the exception!