What Is Tango Doing Right/Wrong: Recruiting and Retaining

[fiesta0618]

Sure. But what's the fix?

In my view, the only practical fix is the one currently in effect: have such a low barrier to entry for teaching that anyone can try it, so teachers are relatively available and students can vote with their feet.

Because the alternative is methodological certification. That's incredibly difficult and expensive and lengthy. Doing no methodological instruction at all (which is the current state of affairs; the major dance-teaching certs only cover subject matter fluency and not educational theory) and leaving teaching effectiveness to talent & affinity is unreliable, but inexpensive and fast to execute. And in the end, we may even end up with the same number of good teachers! There's just a lot more garbage to sift through to find them.

 

[fiesta0618]

A crucial distinction is the skillset. In the dancer case, I'm talking about being mediocre at dancing. In the teacher case, I'm talking about being mediocre at dance pedagogy.

Mistaking dance skill for dance teaching skill is a leading cause of mediocrity among teachers.

I salute your for this self-awareness. It's totally true.

Example:

My wife and I have basically equivalent dance expertise, and are about equally comfortable with people. But she thinks (and I reluctantly agree) that she would make a terrible teacher. Meanwhile, I AM a dance teacher as a side hustle, and I have reason to believe I'm pretty good at it.

The difference is methodology. I've studied it formally and I use it in my day job. She hasn't and doesn't. That's all the difference.

 

[opendoor]

Mistaking dance skill for dance teaching skill is a leading cause of mediocrity among teachers.

No, exactly the other way round. Only because students mistake dance skills for teaching skills, there is so much mediocrity among dancers. A good dance teacher remains a good dance teacher.

 

[lucia_l]

No, exactly the other way round. Only because students mistake dance skills for teaching skills, there is so much mediocrity among dancers.

I think you and JournalInTime are saying the same thing. Students see that someone dances excellently and think they will be able to teach well too. But that's not always the case. Nevertheless, the good dancers attract students, resulting in what we see: an industry where some (or many) teachers don't teach well.

Having said that, I would probably never hire a dance teacher if I could tell they didn't dance at all well and they never did. I might hire an elderly dance teacher who no longer dances well, but once did. But if they never danced pretty well at all? Odds are if they dance poorly and always did, they probably won't be a good teacher.

There may be some sort of exception to this rule, but I think not hiring people who you can tell are incapable of dancing will tend to minimize the chance of wasting money.

If you know dance well enough to teach well, you can probably manage to dance a somewhat above "adequate" for social dancing. You will probably at least be the level that onlookers thing, "Yeah. They are a good dancer."

 

[Bailango]

No, exactly the other way round. Only because students mistake dance skills for teaching skills, there is so much mediocrity among dancers. A good dance teacher remains a good dance teacher.

You are disagreeing to agree?

You both are saying the same.

 

[Rabbit]

Speaking for myself, I am a big fan of democratization and don't find mediocratization to be a problem. In my view, the problem is mostly that people are unwilling to view themselves as mediocre. A little self-awareness that "I'm not very good in the grand scheme of things, but that's okay because I'm as good as I want to be" goes a very long way!

I think Youtube actually demonstrates the positives of democratization. Perhaps not for AT specifically, but there is a lot of high quality educational / informative / entertainment content available that simply isn't on conventional TV because it is either niche or too in-depth for the general public.

There's obviously a lot of mediocre or bad content too, but it is easily identifiable as such and can just be ignored.

 

[Bailango]

There's obviously a lot of mediocre or bad content too, but it is easily identifiable as such and can just be ignored.

Many people follow that and don’t ignore it. That is why it rises to the top.

 

[opendoor]

You both are saying the same.

I wanted to show how the causal chain is structured, whether it's top-down or bottom-up.

For newcomers, everything revolves around the goal they have in mind, never the path. And professional teachers (regardless of their teaching skills or performance abilities) would be foolish not to monetize this.

As I write this, I realize something. Many of the newcomers to tango who stayed had already danced before. That is, they focused on the path, not the goal. Many of the newcomers who hadn't danced before came for the goal. And the dropout rate in this group is quite high, as you all know. So I could link this assumption to the provocative thesis: Should we really bother with acquisition? Isn't it better to focus on the dancers who come to us to develop further?

 

[pianistamediano]

Should we really bother with acquisition? Isn't it better to focus on the dancers who come to us to develop further?

It would be foolish to expend zero time and effort on people who come to tango who want the end result but aren't appreciative of the journey, I think.

Very few people work on continual development of their dance solely because of the journey (I'm certainly not one of them!); I suspect the vast majority of people would quit tango (or indeed, any non-trivial pursuit requiring non-negligible skill and time) if they realised that their goal was unattainable, or just too difficult for them.

A great many dancers are simply unable to understand the joy of pursuing an everdistant ideal.

But that's not to say that they don't belong in tango (or any dance) in general; it's still possible to influence their mindset into something less goal-oriented, and I think that's worth the trouble.

 

[lucia_l]

Very few people work on continual development of their dance solely because of the journey (I'm certainly not one of them!);

Honestly, I don't even think "focus on the path" necessarily beats "focus on the goal". Part of the issue is recognizing "what the goal should be". One difficulty is that people who have never danced tend to want the goal to be to "look like those dancers!" or just "be good enough to able to socialize with this group!"

People who have mastered some dances are more likely to grasp that at least some fundamental stuff really matters to achieving this goal. Beginners understandably think it's knowing lots of "patterns" (e.g. "I can do an ocho now!")

I suspect the vast majority of people would quit tango (or indeed, any non-trivial pursuit requiring non-negligible skill and time) if they realised that their goal was unattainable, or just too difficult for them.

Or.... because group lessons start teaching "ochos" early, they never manage to find or give a comfortable embrace. Or sometimes manage with a teacher but it's uncomfortable with most students in the class. That makes all dancing uncomfortable. So what's the point? WCS has it's issues for some. (Either you want all that improv or you don't!) But at least you don't have discomfort at the beginning.

 

[Paja]

WCS? For me there is major obstacle basic step, pattern SLOW-SLOW-TRIPPLE STEP-TRIPPLE STEP is for me almost impossible to automatize. I can dance WCS basic steps in line, but when I try to do some turns or figures, I am lost in counting TRIPPLE STEPS. This discomfort caused lost of my interest about WCS.

 

[Brummbaer]

Should we really bother with acquisition? Isn't it better to focus on the dancers who come to us to develop further?

You need both!

'Aquisition' replaces an aging stock! But it is more 'costly' than retention - which is also required. Also, some start with AT. Some don't fit other partner dances until AT finds them. That's a lot of potential acquisition which is being ignored, or focusing on the wrong market. Sometimes you have to use a 'scattergun' approach like al fresco milongas with potential low return (but the participants might also enjoy it), or loss-leader 'free' sessions; sometimes you might focus on specific groups, e.g. university, Spanish language learners, pre-retirement, post-retirement.

Many of them are unaware of the journey when they start - and AT, in some ways, presents many difficulties beyond a 'dance' which make it appear elitist. Maybe part of any answer is to improve teaching. I know tango teachers who do such teaching courses, but the other good ones who remain have, let's say, some aptitude for teaching anyway. However I don't want to knock those who became enamoured with AT and wish to pass it on, perhaps in some more isolated community - as long as they accept their limitations. I know some do, but many don't.

For most, the goal (partner dancing as seen in some fantasia presentation), is unattainable. But that's the myth that the media sells for all such fantasia.

 

[lucia_l]

I don't find difficulty counting to be physical discomfort. I can find mastering it a challenge. I find a feeling of perpetual lack of balance physically uncomfortable.

I have watched Ballroomers (not advanced ones) doing AT at club night. I noticed the dispensed with the "hold" I see in real AT. They don't do an imitation hold either. I imagine this is because imitating that A-frameish looking hold when you aren't doing it right is what is uncomfortable. And then no one can move on to "doing" anything. As the ballroomer-club night students goal is to do a dance with AT looking decorations, they skip that hold. (The club nighters do zero walking btw. They just keep the interesting looking stuff they are able to do. )

These are all bronze-level ballroomers I've watched and not even winning bronze level ballroomers.

 

[lucia_l]

Should we really bother with acquisition? Isn't it better to focus on the dancers who come to us to develop further?

Good question. Dances come; dances go. No one dances the "quadrille" anymore. Whether you should bother with acquisition depends on whether you want Tango to go the way of the quadrille. If you don't and it doesn't acquire naturally, you have to try to find a way to acquire more.

The vast majority non-Tango dancers will certainly not mourn the passing of AT and more than the mourn the passing of other dancers they don't dance.

Presumably this thread is here because some people are hoping to figure out how to both acquire and maintain dancers.

 

[Brummbaer]

they never manage to find or give a comfortable embrace

That's an added problem for AT in many cultures and societies (and also the 'forbidden' makes it attractive)! There are multiple threads on this already. It's just one of the many additional issues to the dance itself. Who do you 'hug' nowadays? Is that 'approved of' in the context, or is it assault?

I was at some workshops a few weeks ago and noticed a couple with a strange embrace, then found out they were ballroom dancers and had been 'taught' that embrace there.