What is tango doing wrong: #3 - men & women

They're young, male, and possibly(?) solos.
Then the boys belong to a socially risk group. Eight times as many suicides as girls. The main cause of death at the age below 45. [*]
Tango certainly has a positive effect here, as they are in the top 10%. But I don't think Joe Average has much to laugh.

Personally, I really don't want to complain. I'm currently playing urban cowboy in my darkened camper van, a nice man's toy, near the El Corte . Even with a bit of risk taking, as that is not legal in the Netherlands.
And I have a date with a great lady for tomorrow's workshop, as well as further registrations with her and others for encuentros until into the next summer.

[*]
 
Then the boys belong to a socially risk group. Eight times as many suicides as girls. The main cause of death at the age below 45. [*]
Isn't that story a bit incomplete? Boys may commit suicide successfully more often than girls, but young girls attempt suicide much more often based on hospital admittance data. Girls are also more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than boys the same age multiple times over.

I'm not sure where the study that says suicide is the main cause of death for males under 45, but if that is the case it's a recent change based on existing medical sources. Suicide is the second most common for young men after unintentional injury. (Cannot post my source as my points are too low. Sad!)

Even if suicide is the number one killer for males under 45, this could just be indicative that that demo is so unlikely to die due to accident or illness that they're only really at risk when intentionally trying to die. Its an area to watch for sudden changes, but 'suicide being the leading cause of death for young men' on its own is not that informative of a piece of datum. It could be indicative of either a nation-wide crisis or of a massive medical achievement.

A better measure would be to compare young male suicide against itself in a prior year.

There's been rising discourse for the past several years about various 'male crises' of some sort or another; usually with segments tinged towards economic or relational angles. Sometimes I will see one that takes a mental health or overall wellbeing angle. These are all pointed at answering the question of why are young men are NEET-ing rather than participating in central public institutions like their fathers did.

However, most of this discourse strikes me as cope for an anxiety or apprehension that having a lot of young dissatisfied males sitting around is historically a major risk for the current leadership in whatever country those young men inhabit (and also for the occupants of any buildings that may get firebombed as a result of their 'direct action').

It's not that the phenomenon is totally irrelevant to tango, but we shouldn't blindly operate in the frame of such 'cope discourse' about a male, or any, crisis. All that kind of garbage is purely about energizing you to take an action on behalf of someone else and their interests. By the unwritten and binding charter of this forum, we take actions selfishly on the behalf of our Argentine Tango interests.

Perhaps there is no 'relationship epidemic' but just a boring decline of man-woman relationships due to technological factors such as birth control, girlfriend chat bots, artificial wombs, and economics that make child rearing a luxury. Under such conditions we can predict typical dating and pair bonding to slowly decline until the cultural institution loses all momentum (but probably only stopping after we are all dead) and an increasing separation in the social and moral makeup of men and women as they broadly cease all previously compulsory interactions with each other.

What can tango still offer under these conditions? Clearly not everyone (man or woman) who posts here is only dancing to get a date at this point. We must feel that there is something of value outside of lust to be found at the milonga. Additionally its a least plausible that it has something to do with a man-woman diad. Otherwise why would 'female leads' or 'role balanced events' even be terms of discussion?

Perhaps, if tango persists a century from now, it will be because men and women could dance together without the need of a verbal invitation or indeed even having to sit near one another. Or perhaps it will be because you'll need a license to dance tango and the Department of Frivolity strictly role balances all licensed tangueros.
 
Isn't that story a bit incomplete? Boys may commit suicide successfully more often than girls, but young girls attempt suicide much more often based on hospital admittance data. Girls are also more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than boys the same age multiple times over.

I'm not sure where the study that says suicide is the main cause of death for males under 45, but if that is the case it's a recent change based on existing medical sources. Suicide is the second most common for young men after unintentional injury. (Cannot post my source as my points are too low. Sad!)

Even if suicide is the number one killer for males under 45, this could just be indicative that that demo is so unlikely to die due to accident or illness that they're only really at risk when intentionally trying to die. Its an area to watch for sudden changes, but 'suicide being the leading cause of death for young men' on its own is not that informative of a piece of datum. It could be indicative of either a nation-wide crisis or of a massive medical achievement.

A better measure would be to compare young male suicide against itself in a prior year.
Yes, absolutely right, then this story is incomplete. Perhaps it was also the case that suicides and accidents during dares were the most common causes of death, I'm not sure. Well, after all, tango dancers are on average older than 45.

I also found it interesting that until a few hundred years ago, when our culture transitioned from polygamy to monogamy, only about half of all men were able to "pass on their DNA". And that - without the economic dependence of course - we might be returning to this state, somehow.
Perhaps this could also be applied to tango. Maybe it's better to be the third choice of a first-class dancer than the first choice of a third-class dancer?
 
Maybe it's better to be the third choice of a first-class dancer than the first choice of a third-class dancer?
Funnily I was thinking about something similar just today. But with a different conclusion for my own fresh-in-memory experience. Yesterday was for me one of those dream milongas that leave you on a high. When a friend asked me why, I pushed away the feel-good hormones and dissected the evening analytically. A mix of partners who were new discoveries and some familiar ones I see either regularly or infrequently. Some were very very good and my ego was boosted by them seeking me out and expressing delight. So the “third choice of an excellent dancer”, maybe (or several). But I realize I got just as much a kick out of being the “first choice of a third class dancer” (or several). The connection, the presence, the feeling of accomplishment in the collaboration, the way I felt flattered that these partners indirectly expressed they were “dancing up” to me… and yes, also the man/woman dynamic (uhmm to bring it back on topic).
As in mating, we instinctively go for the best partner who will accept us, I guess. But again, those who are always striving upwards might be missing out because they think their market value on the dance floor is better than it is.
 
So the “third choice of an excellent dancer”, maybe (or several). But I realize I got just as much a kick out of being the “first choice of a third class dancer” (or several). The connection, the presence, the feeling of accomplishment in the collaboration, the way I felt flattered that these partners indirectly expressed they were “dancing up” to me…
To me a gulf between what I would call equivalent of a first class and third class, is too wide. So it probably depends on our definitions of skill levels. I will add that a difference between first and second classes is distinct enough that a partner at lower skill level dancing up is not sufficient to make up for connection, presence, collaboration that is begotten with first class partners.

Getting kick or pleasure of dancing notwithstanding a significant differential level is possible. To me that’s not resulting from connection, presence, or collaboration. It may result from pleasant personality, responsiveness, embrace, etc. More potential to be on accelerated path to first class dancer in future.

Some may argue embrace translates to connection. Not if the embrace is good but responsiveness is missing. Often can be experienced with some beginners.
 
I would've said hypergamy, but it's more of a mix of that and polygamy and monogamy — in short, it reflects dating in real life. :p
I am not sure. I am desirous of dating far less people than I am of dancing :D If dancing were to reflect dating in real life, I would be that snob that finds no one worthy of a dance :P
 
I am not sure. I am desirous of dating far less people than I am of dancing :D If dancing were to reflect dating in real life, I would be that snob that finds no one worthy of a dance :P

Well, resembles then! Plenty of people trying to get better and better partners, beginner leaders getting shafted, older women getting shafted... the list goes on! :rofl:
 
Hm are you implying tango is a mild form of polygamy?
"Polyamory" sounds like more joy in life, and with tango it goes well both ways.

If we can all agree on one thing, then it's that changing partners frequently is extremely important for tango if it is not to die of boredom within a very short time.
Beyond that, how you assess relationships depends largely on personal interests in the situation. You choose your terms accordingly, be it clique or network or circle of friends.

In the last linked video it was mentioned that men are more likely to "drop out" than women when they feel useless. I also notice that I don't get up from the couch if I think I'm not needed at a milonga, and I don't bring a pasta salad with me as a substitute. So relationships may well be crucial.
 

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