what makes a leader/follower good
- Thread starter luh
- Start date
Do you think it is just lack of repetitions? For example, the timing, comfort and smoothness of my basic whip has improved dramatically over the thousands of times I end up doing it. So the thinking, counting part is a couple levels of complexity up now. I suspect those will be smooth and playful a thousand times from now.
i doubt that it's just lack of repetitions. sometimes people go crazy. They are smooth, they have correct technique, dancing musicality, - but there is just something missing.
luh
This is entirely dependant on the dance you do. In West coast Swing a leader should be giving a clear indication of the turn, which direction when it is suppossed to start and where it is suppossed to start. It can be thought of as a suggestion or a request.
In lindy hop the leader really does create the turn... not cranking but causing the follower's foot to step in such a way that the turn is the only natural response. The energy the leader has put into it shows all the details needed and when he wants her to stop turning he is suppossed to reabsorb that energy and transfer it to the next move.
Neither dance should have the leader physically cranking the follower through (where he is supplying force in the direction of the turn which if the follower were to slow or attempt to stop it would force her through).
Is the difference you are describing just because one is circular and one is in a slot? So the character of the dance tells her not to wander too far from the slot? In my WCS classes, it seems like we still spend a ton of time on defining the timing of the turn such that it occurs when she is on the right foot and there is only one natural direction.
Good question, and the answer is no. The leader in WCS is suppossed to indicate when a foolwoer is suppossed to turn, and by puttin git at the proper place it isn't confusing. You aren't asking the follower to turn in a place in a direction that is counter-intuitive.
In lindy hop I am physically turning my partners body through our frame so when her foot comes down she is no longer facing the same direction she was.
Lindy Hop uses a slot, it also uses ellipses, curves, circles, etc. A turn is going to fall into one of two catagories, 1. where the follower is expected to turn while traveling, and 2. where the follower is expected to turn in place. The leader leads the beginning of a turn where the follower is traveling the same regardless if she is traveling in a line or arc. There is no technical difference until the guiding aspect happens... which does not coninue to generate the same force but simply guide it, you could picture it as the difference between how you swing your arm when throwing a ball before release and swinging the arm after catching a ball.
In lindy hop I am physically turning my partners body through our frame so when her foot comes down she is no longer facing the same direction she was.
Lindy Hop uses a slot, it also uses ellipses, curves, circles, etc. A turn is going to fall into one of two catagories, 1. where the follower is expected to turn while traveling, and 2. where the follower is expected to turn in place. The leader leads the beginning of a turn where the follower is traveling the same regardless if she is traveling in a line or arc. There is no technical difference until the guiding aspect happens... which does not coninue to generate the same force but simply guide it, you could picture it as the difference between how you swing your arm when throwing a ball before release and swinging the arm after catching a ball.
"So the character of the dance tells her not to wander too far from the slot?"
If the woman is good, she won't wander away from you.
If your partner has good posture, gives you a good connection, and keeps her body (her "center") over her feet, it becomes possible to feel where she can go next.
The more she is tuned into your lead, the later it has to come in order to get a response.
The less she is tuned into your lead, the earlier you have to get her attention.
You are right about getting the timing right. You are trying to "catch" her at a certain point in her step, where it is easy to redirect her momentum.
When your partner thinks she knows what's coming next, she either won't be paying attention, or will already be committing herself to that next step. That makes any variation that much harder to lead.
Intuitive often translates as "what has always happened there before".
When someone tells you "that feels awkward", it sometime helps to explain to them that it only feels awkward because they've already turned the other way hundreds or thousand of times. (This assumes that you can show them how to do it comfortably yourself, or can have someone else do it well. And, it really helps to be very comfortable with the way everybody else always does it before going on the weird stuff.)
If the woman is good, she won't wander away from you.
If your partner has good posture, gives you a good connection, and keeps her body (her "center") over her feet, it becomes possible to feel where she can go next.
The more she is tuned into your lead, the later it has to come in order to get a response.
The less she is tuned into your lead, the earlier you have to get her attention.
You are right about getting the timing right. You are trying to "catch" her at a certain point in her step, where it is easy to redirect her momentum.
When your partner thinks she knows what's coming next, she either won't be paying attention, or will already be committing herself to that next step. That makes any variation that much harder to lead.
Intuitive often translates as "what has always happened there before".
When someone tells you "that feels awkward", it sometime helps to explain to them that it only feels awkward because they've already turned the other way hundreds or thousand of times. (This assumes that you can show them how to do it comfortably yourself, or can have someone else do it well. And, it really helps to be very comfortable with the way everybody else always does it before going on the weird stuff.)
Thanks, married life and a new job have taken some getting used to (as wonderful as they are). I'm trying to sneak a post or two in once a week.
westcoaster
New Member
I'm really glad to see this thread, because I had a revelation recently (I think), and I'd love to hear feedback from y'all.
What I've decided to aim for as a "good lead" is to make EVERY follow I dance with feel capable, musical, and appreciated.
That sounds really abstract and philosophical, but it's got to be grounded in musicality, connection, etc, as well as the "smile" comment that keeps coming up.
Capable: For her to follow successfully we have to be clear but not forceful with our leads, and cater to her own specific strengths and weaknesses- not lead anything too difficult for her given her experience & ability. I think this is most important when I'm dancing with a follow less experienced than me.
Musical: Obviously dancing on beat, hitting breaks, and phrasing, but also setting her up so that it's natural for her to hit accents if she's the kind of follow who does that, and varying our own stylistic elements to lead her to whatever song is playing rather than just doing pattern to pattern to pattern.
Appreciated: Some follows already know they are capable and musical, so we need to show we appreciate that and really showcase her talents during the dance. Set her up for play, try to match or complement her own unique stylings and variations. Challenge her where you feel she can handle it. And, of course, smile and thank-you.
I think having fun is also really important, and I tend to be a very playful and musical lead. But I realized very recently that I was more focused on entertaining and showcasing my own abilities rather than my follow's. I'll still do one or two dances a night with a follow I know well and just let the performer in me run wild, and I still do a few of my own syncopations and variations to match the music in every dance. But now I'm really trying to trust my follow and focus on her more.
What I've decided to aim for as a "good lead" is to make EVERY follow I dance with feel capable, musical, and appreciated.
That sounds really abstract and philosophical, but it's got to be grounded in musicality, connection, etc, as well as the "smile" comment that keeps coming up.
Capable: For her to follow successfully we have to be clear but not forceful with our leads, and cater to her own specific strengths and weaknesses- not lead anything too difficult for her given her experience & ability. I think this is most important when I'm dancing with a follow less experienced than me.
Musical: Obviously dancing on beat, hitting breaks, and phrasing, but also setting her up so that it's natural for her to hit accents if she's the kind of follow who does that, and varying our own stylistic elements to lead her to whatever song is playing rather than just doing pattern to pattern to pattern.
Appreciated: Some follows already know they are capable and musical, so we need to show we appreciate that and really showcase her talents during the dance. Set her up for play, try to match or complement her own unique stylings and variations. Challenge her where you feel she can handle it. And, of course, smile and thank-you.
I think having fun is also really important, and I tend to be a very playful and musical lead. But I realized very recently that I was more focused on entertaining and showcasing my own abilities rather than my follow's. I'll still do one or two dances a night with a follow I know well and just let the performer in me run wild, and I still do a few of my own syncopations and variations to match the music in every dance. But now I'm really trying to trust my follow and focus on her more.
leftfeetnyc
Active Member
Sounds like you're someone every girl wants to dance with! Those fantastic goals for a dance!
danceflower
New Member
you are probably one of those most wanted partners. 
