What makes you cringe in tango?

[TTanguero]

Maja and Marko's list from this Facebook post:

Facebook

www.facebook.com

"1. Asking for discounts at milonga entrance. Organizing is neither easy nor cheap. If the event isn’t in your budget, find one that is. Being poor is fine, being cheap isn’t.

2. Bitching about everything: music, floor, bar, prices, ronda, level. Not everything is the organizer’s fault or responsibility. If it’s truly necessary, give constructive criticism in private. You don’t have to ruin everyone’s evening.

3. Verbal invitations. Unless the stars of this and every other galaxy align, verbal invitations are a massive cringe. Cabeceo exists for a reason.

4. Giving DJ your musical wishes and unsolicited advice. Even if you know the music better, leave the DJ alone, they have a job to do and your meddling won’t make it better.

5. Taking rejection personally. 99% of rejections are based on your dance. Your dance sucks, not you (assuming you’re fairly well groomed and mannered). Get over it, you’re an adult. It happens to everyone. Just go practice.

6. Followers inviting leaders through anything else but cabeceo. Ladies, I support equality. That means: use the cabeceo, hope for a yes but learn how to take a no. Manipulating, flirting, being all cute or- Pugliese forbid- aggressively pursuing a leader is unbecoming. Have more self respect. Do you really want a charity tanda?

7. Announcing events from your private life in milongas. There’s a time and place for everything and it’s rarely at a tango event. Oversharing is neither classy nor cute.

8. Any inappropriate behavior during tanda. You came to dance. Be extremely respectful and polite towards your partner. Don’t mistake tango chemistry for actual chemistry.

9. Birthday dance. 1 person having multiple partners - that they didn’t choose - switch quickly while the audience watches and cheers. Just no.

10. Correcting/ teaching your partner while dancing. The audacity and delulu of people who do this is beyond me.

What makes you cringe in social tango situations?"

The only ones I'd disagree with here are (4), with provisos I'll get to, and (7) – I don't personally mind these. It's one song, some recognition for the birthday person, and a bit of fun for others.

For DJ requests, I'd say "it depends." If you know the DJ, and make it a gentle "I was wondering whether you were planning any ..." then I think it's fine. But I gather some people do get more demanding than that, which is cringe for sure.

Ben

 

[opendoor]

I disagree with most of their points. But on the dance floor, in the restaurant, and on the saggy couch at daybrake, I got along well with both of them. We have to live with these differences. Tango simply is about carrying your enemy gracefully through the ronda.

 

[opendoor]

And, of course, there are the Perle Fishers..
That excuses all future missteps.

 

[Rabbit]

- Teacher cliques

- Tango performances at milongas (Unless its celebrating members of the community, birthday dances are fine)

- Older men that never dance with anyone in their age group

- Facebook in general

 

[pianistamediano]

Maja and Marko's list from this Facebook post:

Facebook

www.facebook.com

Who spat in their morning cereal?

I'm inclined to agree with most except:

3. Next time I want to invite a friend sitting next to me while we're mid-conversation, I'll walk ten feet away and try to cabeceo her. Even professionals have invited me while we're talking, I don't see why this is a faux pas.

4. I just smile and make small talk with people until they talk too much, then I just put on my headphones. I'm fine with requests as long as people understand that I can't guarantee playing them.

6. I find it flattering if a follower flirts or is being all cute in trying to dance with me — as long as they understand that I can decline if I want to. Maybe Marko's been traumatised by the horses of followers trying to dance with him. Oh, the pain!

7. If an organiser is getting married or having a child, hey, it's all good. It's a community, after all. I just hate it when they drag out the announcements.

9. What???? What's wrong with celebrating a community member's birthday? They're commenting that they themselves don't want a birthday waltz, but it's not social dancing or social etiquette in general, which is ridiculous.

10. Yeah, usually the older men who dance with younger/less experienced followers. That old paternalistic, oh I'm just trying to help a newcomer mindset is not welcome at milongas. Even if a dancer specifically asks for advice/feedback, it had better be short and sweet, or they're just better off walking off the pista to find a corner to practise in without disturbing other people.

 

[JournalInTime]

1 (asking for discounts) is offensive. We live in a post-haggling economy unless you're at a flea market or a fruit stall. Deal with it.

2 (bitching) is just tiresome. Save it for the walk/ride home.

3 (verbal invitations) is fine at close range or between friends. It's fine otherwise, too, if the person asking can take "no" for an answer. And I say this as a cabeceo-user.

4 (requests) is normal at literally every other kind of dance party. What makes tango and its DJs so special? Part of the basic job description of "DJ" is taking requests.

5 (taking rejection personally) is immature. Life is full of daily rejection. Get over it.

6 (followers inviting leaders directly) is fine of the person asking can take "no" for an answer. I'm not seeing the difference from #3. As a vision-impaired person, I appreciate followers coming to find me.

7 (discussing personal affairs) is fine with friends or close acquaintances – it's just another facet of the "social" in "social dance." It's uncouth with strangers, but as a non-traveler, I don't meet many of those.

8 (inappropriate behavior) is the most offensive thing on the list. I've been on the receiving end. Anyone who thinks tango is a pickup scene needs a reality check and kick in the butt, not necessarily in that order.
9 (birthday dance) is fine. It's standard at every single milonga in my large community, and I've never heard anybody complain . . . Sounds like somebody didn't get their birthday dance!

10 (correcting/teaching your partner) is the second most offensive thing on this list. It has no place at the milonga. I'd like to see organizers eject people for it.

Beyond #1, 2, 5, 8, and 10, what makes me cringe?

Bad floorcraft . . . especially people who back onto the line of dance without visually seeking permission. This includes followers who jump into the line of dance when invited. It also includes people who aren't dancing milling about when others are dancing. Nothing is so urgent that it can't wait for the cortina.

Also, not respecting obvious breaktime. If someone has their shoes off, or is in a corner gulping water and fanning themselves and clearly overheated, or generally taking a time out, treat them as invisible – okay, it's fine to chat, but don't even think about thinking about attempting to get them to dance. If you can't tell, you need to relearn basic social skills.

 

[itwillhappen]

0) Lack of self-reflection – especially when someone complains about a milonga but still goes back again and again.

1) Lack of tolerance, especially at encuentros.

4) Show dances – but I don't know if Maja & Marko would agree with me on that.

4) Dyscalculia

 

[itwillhappen]

What makes you cringe in social tango situations?

#majaymarko #tango #tangoargentino #tangoshow #socialtango

(Maja&Marko have 47,637 followers on Facebook. I accept that, as part of a professional social media marketing, controversial posts are written from time to time to increase reach. But I don't take it too seriously or even personally.)

 

[JournalInTime]

0) Lack of self-reflection – especially when someone complains about a milonga but still goes back again and again.

This is in a sense meta-cringe: It happens less at the milonga and more in the choice of which milongas to attend. Many dancers make lengthy "cringe lists" – like the original one and the ones we're offering here – for specific milongas, and yet return to those milongas, where they add about as much to the atmosphere as black mold. I find that a little hard to grasp.

4) Show dances – but I don't know if Maja & Marko would agree with me on that.

No performer will publicly agree with you – but as a boring, ordinary, middle-aged social dancer, I will. I don't enjoy organizers stopping the milonga to let some hotshots dance steps you can't dance in the milonga, choreographed rather than improvised like social dance at the milonga. And the real cringe is the several tandas that follow, when all the would-be hotshots attempt to dance like their idols, but in a crowded ronda.

I've attended milongas where big-name dancers were advertised as being present, and where they shared the floor with everybody else (dancing better than most of us, certainly). During the inevitable (at least here) announcement break, they were invited to say a few words to advertise their upcoming workshops, or availability for private lessons, and . . . that was it, that was all. No demo. That's my strong preference.

Also, I have a late addition to my list:

4 (requests) is normal at literally every other kind of dance party. What makes tango and its DJs so special? Part of the basic job description of "DJ" is taking requests.

Three related (in the sense that they'll make me approach the DJ) and serious cringes for me are:

• DJs who omit milonga and/or vals tandas. I'm flexible on 4 pieces vs. 3 (or even 5 for short pieces, or 2 for getting-to-know-you "speed tandas" in the first 20-30 minutes, when it's mostly beginners). I don't have an opinion on where a DJ starts the TTVTTM sequence (I've encountered TTV, TVT, VTT, TTM, TMT, and even MTT), as it doesn't matter to anybody who doesn't show up the moment the doors open. I can even live with departing from the sequence to have TVTMTVTM or something weird like TVMTVM. But the minimum dose is 1/6 V and 1/6 M, and going lower simply isn't fun.
  
  
• DJ's who do not vary the mood all evening. All pieces are at around the same tempo, are lyric or rhythmic, are from the same era, are from the same few orquestas, have or do not have singers, etc. The word that comes to mind is "monotonous." There's no good reason not to have high, medium, and low energy, spread out across the entire range of major (and a few minor) orquestas, with a bit of singing, a bit of intrumental, a bit of rhythmic, a bit of lyric, and a few challenging syncopated bits like Biagi.
  
  
• DJs who play overlong cortinas. I've heard "20 to 40 seconds," "30 to 45 seconds," and "no longer than 60 seconds," and I agree that less than 20 or perhaps even 30 seconds is too short. But . . . 60 seconds? 90? A full song? Yikes. I didn't come to listen to the DJ's jogging playlist or the Best of the 1980s. I came to dance tangos, valses, and milongas.

 

[opendoor]

...late addition to my list:

• DJs who play overlong cortinas. I've heard ..A full song? ..came to dance tangos, valses, and milongas.

I completely agree with you, both as a dancer and as a DJ. But the worst part is that most dancers seem to enjoy long, drawn-out cortinas. To me, that's the peak of uneducated tastelessness. I almost throw up when swing or rock 'n' roll cortinas are played for 60 seconds. So please, do not play dance music as a cortina, or play them in a full swing or salsa tanda, like it was done in the golden age.

 

[JournalInTime]

So please, do not play dance music as a cortina, or play them in a full swing or salsa tanda, like it was done in the golden age.

I have to agree.

I am entirely happy to have the DJ play a tanda of cumbia, rock, salsa, or I suppose even foxtrot or whatever as a "tango intermezzo," as long as they stick to the "70% rule" to qualify the event as a milonga and not a baile. I don't dance to most of that stuff, but that's okay! A tanda is long enough for me to change my shirt, wash my hands, get a drink, check my phone, etc., in a way that a cortina (even a long one) is not. It serves a purpose for everyone.

I am not happy to hear dance music played as a cortina. It clutters the floor with the people who inevitably dance to it, making it hard to escort partners to their seats and move into position to cabeceo new partners. Also, a lot of people use that as a strategy to secure partners, trying to keep a cortina dance partner on the floor for the next tanda, with a very negative effect on partner rotation. For cortinas, not-so-danceable music is best, whether that means Mozart or experimental electronica full of glitch and with no beat. Yes, people can and will dance to anything, but playing genres that are foremost dance music (like disco, reggaeton, salsa, and most techno) guarantees chaos between tandas. I remember with fondness a DJ who used the orchestral soundtrack of the Star Wars movies as cortinas . . .

 

[Rabbit]

As someone who dances to the cortinas sometimes, I don't actually want a "tanda" of it because these songs are typically 4-5 minutes long already. Anyway, most of the DJs of Argentinian origin around here set the expectation already that they'll just let the cortina play out (one song) if enough people are dancing it, and then go back to tango, 1-2 times a milonga.

 

[JournalInTime]

I don't actually want a "tanda" of it because these songs are typically 4-5 minutes long already.

Well, a tanda can be measured by duration rather than number of pieces. If two AC/DC tunes are four Tanturis, then at your metalhead milonga, just play tandas of two.

Anyway, most of the DJs of Argentinian origin around here set the expectation already that they'll just let the cortina play out (one song) if enough people are dancing it, and then go back to tango, 1-2 times a milonga.

Spontaneous is fun but possibly not good. It's complicating the lives of everybody who wants to change partners and benefit from a clear floor for the sake of a few people who decide to dance. I think that it's better for such things to be planned and announced.

 

[opendoor]

..remember with fondness a DJ who used the orchestral soundtrack of the Star Wars movies as cortinas . . .

Last time I used Twin Peaks for tango, Miami Vice for vals, Magnum for milonga, and Breaking Bad for neotango. But I'll be swapping the Twin Peaks theme next week, as one couple actually started dancing WCS.

 

[Brummbaer]

Cringeworthy...

1. Pedants - on any aspect without sound, reasoned, justifications. And consequences thereof.
2. Anyone peddling 'euphoria', 'mindfulness', 'tango nirvana', etc to justify a dance, or aspects of the arrangement.