What to focus on in Standard?

[danceronice]

from my own experience only, I think there is a danger in dancers not of the highest level not taking time to feel the balance point which is decidedly not between their feet, but rather, on their standing leg... and they can't have much power, balance or frame without an awareness of that...further, when one focuses on moving the free leg, there is a tendency to toe lead and to break frame and balance....it is very important to move one's center and that will create a moment between the feet....obviously, there are ways to misunderstand and screw up any piece of information, and there are ways to successfully apply nearly any piece of information...clearly, my response is from my perspective as a follow dancing silver/gold levels and regards what has worked for ME...it was never intended to do anything else... it has served me well...certainly every journey is unique

It doesn't really matter to me WHICH style I'm doing, I've found it works best if I work from the foot up--if I'm not centered on my foot, I can't step as far (or I thud onto the free foot). I mean, everything matters, but if I don't feel solid in my feet, nothing else works. So I tend to prefer to learn from the foot and work up, doesn't matter if I'm doing Latin, Standard, Smooth, or Rhythm. Same principle as skating from the skate up--if I can't control my edges, I can skate fast, I can have a great upper body, but it won't be quite right.

I mean, yes, to a certain degree if you want to attract (certain) judges (speaking as a follow) just make a big shape (standard/smooth in hold) and worry about feet later, and yeah, in some cases you will place well no matter how bad your feet are. But that won't help forever.

 

[fascination]

doi...I agree...because while I do think that Joe is right that frame is the first thing they see and are looking for, I think that the things that undermine it often happen below it...or sometimes above it ...and therein lies the paradox, that while one will have difficulty trying to focus on all three elements at once, they are interconnected and effect one another sort some of that is a neccessity

 

[DL]

I'm doing [...] Standard

!?!?

 

[Piggles]

when you are thinking about moving bigger, it is critical that you think about moving from a foot rather than to a foot...adequately using all of your standing leg and moving your center...if you do that, rather than reaching with your free foot, you are much more likely to have proper footwork and to be able to keep your frame and your balance in good order

Soooo true!

 

[Piggles]

OM

In every movement, study, study, study: WHERE to put your foot.

Because, no matter how good the frame, balance, swing, or stride---all will break without the exacting precision about where your foot IS.

m

I actually wish my teacher would focus on this more often with me. But if you asked him, he'd say my problem is parallysis by analysis and that I need to shut up and dance already. Which is not to say that we don't work on it, I just think my foot placement could always be better than it is....

 

[danceronice]

!?!?

I do all four. I HATE Standard (competing it's a waste of time as I don't enjoy paying to be dead last in everything), but it's good for Smooth (which is the only one I routinely do notably well in.) It's not about having fun. Competing is fun. Lessons are work. Social dancing is completely hit or miss.

And they all start with the foot. You can use big shaping in Standard or exaggerated hips in Latin to LOOK like you're doing more, but that only covers your butt for so long.

 

[open_mind]

Thanks all for great discussion!

I mean, yes, to a certain degree if you want to attract (certain) judges (speaking as a follow) just make a big shape (standard/smooth in hold) and worry about feet later, and yeah, in some cases you will place well no matter how bad your feet are. But that won't help forever.

This is partially why I posted the original question. We did few our first comps earlier this year and placed at the top (not 1st, but very close, surprisingly) with my not-so-perfect shape and our not-so-big movement. So we worked on my shape and bigger movement during the next few months, thinking oh well, 1st place is ours now. So the next comp comes and we place below couples that we beat before... and we are far far from the top... shocker...

I watch the video and it's quite obvious why: everything looks good at the top with my brand new shape and we move nicely with the music for the most part... but the feet... what is happening with our feet? like, why do they not close at the end of the natural turn? and why do we hop up and down in few places in tango? We never had those problems before. Also, while some steps look big and fluent, inevitably the following steps would be short and rough... We are disappointed a bit, it's like we need to re-learn how to dance all over again.

 

[Joe]

If your feet don't close properly at the end of a half-natural, I guarantee your weight isn't in the proper place. Don't think too badly though; I've seen pro competitors who were unable to close their feet.

 

[open_mind]

speaking of weight... after studying recent videos frame-by-frame, I noticed that I always make larger steps back with my right foot, but it tends to lift off the floor a bit, and I usually make smaller steps with my left foot, but it glides on the floor like it's supposed to. I think it happens because I try to shape and stretch to the left more, like I am told to, and as a result I am more grounded (weighted) on the my left foot. Is that right? If yes, what would be your advice on keeping the weight balance between both feet while keeping stretched shape to the left? I know that I am supposed to stretch in both directions, but I always feel I stretch more to the left to keep the shape.

... now as I think about it, maybe that's also why I am not closing my feet at the end of 1-2-3 of natural turn - not enough weight/ground/balance of my right foot?

 

[fascination]

this makes sense to me...there is such a thing as being too far left (the wrong way)...and I think it does make being over the right foot difficult

 

[madmaximus]

this makes sense to me...there is such a thing as being too far left (the wrong way)...and I think it does make being over the right foot difficult

+1

Also, and don't go over-board with this, consider keeping your right hip closer to your partner when you're stepping backwards with the RF.






m

 

[madmaximus]

. . . but the feet... what is happening with our feet? like, why do they not close at the end of the natural turn? and why do we hop up and down in few places in tango? We never had those problems before. Also, while some steps look big and fluent, inevitably the following steps would be short and rough... We are disappointed a bit, it's like we need to re-learn how to dance all over again.

a couple of quick thoughts...

feet closure: the most common reason for this issue: your partner, your body, and your feet are going in different directions.
When you examine the tape it may seem like a minute mistake at first glance, but it is not.
Examine where your partner's foot and body are in relation to where you've landed your foot (I am almost willing to bet that it's not where it should be).

Tango hop: most common reason is over-striding---which simply means you haven't gotten the technique for lengthening your steps correctly.
In your particular case, I would surmise that your body hasn't caught-up with the lengthening of your stride.

You might want to realize that achieving a longer stride is not a matter of simply lengthening your step---it is, in fact, a whole new body of technique.

my 2cw...






m