When did you make your breakthrough in musicality?

[salsamale]

I have read the 2 main musicality threads, and have taken some advice and inspiration from those.

I want to dance in the music, and not just dance soulless turn patterns. I want to dance expansively when the music feels expansive, and to dance intimately when the music feels intimate. I want to anticipate the breaks in the music, and to do something with those breaks. I want to dance with freedom of expression, without missing a beat.

Practice makes perfect? How much practice did it take you before you felt you were finally dancing in the music? What did you practice? What other things did you do to help with your musicality? What was the breakthrough, "aha" moment, for you?

 

[DCR]

My breakthrough took place when I was watching Chubby Checker demonstrate the twist on TV...the rest is history.

 

[salsamale]

I like your style, DCR. For me, I find it is easier to be expressive dancing the bachata (sensual) or the merengue (fun). I'm planning on taking some cha cha cha classes, because I heard it can help develop musicality.

Somewhere along the line, I hope I can break-out and become expressive when dancing salsa. Sooner rather than later, hopefully .

 

[RugKutta]

I don't know exactly when I had my "breakthrough", but I can see how I have progressed in my dancing as far as musicality is concerned.

First, I remember when I only liked medium-speed and fast songs and hated slow songs, feeling that they were too slow and sappy. Then, one day I happened to be dancing to REALLY fast song that I could barely keep up with. That moment made me appreciate the slow songs alot more. From that point on, I didn't like fast songs, until I learned how to shorten my steps w/ out cheating. I now enjoy songs of all speeds. I came to this realization about songs of either extreme: Fast songs are hard to keep up w/, but it is easy to look good while dancing to them. This is becaue the fact that you are moving quickly and moving alot visually makes up for the lack of style that you may have. Slow songs, while they are easy to keep up with, are hard to dance to and look good at the same time because since you are moving at a slower pace and moving alot less, you have a whole lot of time to do more movements, and when you don't really know what to do w/ that extra time, you look stiff.

Secondly, I've learned how to adjust my dancing to the changes in the music. I was in a class back in April and my instructor asked me, "are you dancing to the music?" I replied "Well, I THOUGHT I was, but I guess I'm not since you had to ask me that." He then showed us all how to do the steps/moves that we do differently depending on the tempo of the song, as well as how to be able to predict when the beat changes/breaks occur. What has also helped me in this area is just listening to a whole lotta salsa. The majority of my music collection is Hip-Hop and R&B, but at least 80% of my drive time is spent listening to salsa. I've come to the point where even if I've never heard a song before, I'm able to feel when the breaks are coming. Heck, I sometimes find myself hitting breaks on accident, when I'm not even thinking about it!

 

[Sagitta]

hmm... I must say I went to the NYC congress in 2004? was it...found it frustrating to dance with people and not be able to connect...then danced with JS....and came back....and I think sometime after that....not to clear, but I just knew. Then in my innocence the ladies just got attracted to me. I kid you not! It was crazy!

Oops! What am I talking about. Anyway....it just comes.... I've never taken a class in musicality. However, I do think that listening to salsa all the time had an effect on me. ;-)

 

[englezul]

Shortly after the silence was broken by the words: "It's a boy".

Yes, that cool.

 

[Dancelf]

A westie's perspective

Practice makes perfect? How much practice did it take you before you felt you were finally dancing in the music? What did you practice? What other things did you do to help with your musicality? What was the breakthrough, "aha" moment, for you?

The breakthrough moment for me was a workshop on musicality which began with a single sentence - Music has rules.

There was another 3 hours of discussion of some of the rules, and how to reflect those rules in ones dancing, but it really didn't matter - the initial lightbulb took care of everything.

That night, I went through all of my favorite songs, and discovered that most of them break at least one rule

The next three months were spent practicing by listening to music repetitively - meaning my player was locked into "Repeat Track" mode the entire time, and I was constantly finding 15 second bursts of music that I would rewind to go over again, and again.


I've posted my current song list already.... If I were going to modify that list for salsa, I would cut everything after Wipeout (except Since You've Been Gone), slot in a few Latin "help the gringos find the one" songs after Riverdance, and pad the back of the list with lessons to illustrate important salsa musical elements (such as...? I haven't the foggiest - that falls beyond the limits of my current competence).

 

[Tasek]

... Heck, I sometimes find myself hitting breaks on accident, when I'm not even thinking about it!

Accident? or the inevitable result of all the listening and practising you've done.

I listen to alot of music, sometimes just as background, other times I take the time to actively and consciously listen to music, analysing the underlying structures, themes, timing, the roles of the various instruments, etc. etc..
Have also played some musical instruments in various orchestras, adding to my insight, knowing how music is made, how my own part fits into the whole.
For me, musicality then comes from the subconscious, where all the experience i've gathered comes together, and gives me a deeper knowledge about the music, knowing, without knowing, (call it the zone, zen, divine inspiration, whatever) the synergy that comes from the different elements coming together.
Musicality in dancing then also needs the technique, the control of your body, experience in dancing, to translate the messages your subconscious gives you (ranging from the overall mood of a song, to a direct 'heads-up, there's a break coming') into appropiate moves.
Partnerdancing then also has the added difficulty of having to synchronise with another person whose different experiences, knowledge, character will lead them to always have different interpretations.

As far as the question from the OP goes.
I don't know when I had my breakthrough, don't think you can even talk about a breakthrough, as you accumulate more experience, more knowledge, you grow in your subconscious musicality. It's just that your conscious isn't really that conscious, lags behind, and every now then realises that you've grown subconsciously.

 

[gte692h]

the 'breakthrough' for me came on this forum. There are some great words written here on musicality (borikensalsero comes to mind!), and the need for it. The inspiration started here, but from then on, its been a continuous process of learning. Every time I go out, I observe how different people interpret music (most don't have any musicality, but a decent few do).
I speak to people about it as well, and try learn as much as I can, plus I have my own ideas.

Musicality can differ, its like painting or drawing. In the beginning, I experimented with hitting breaks, stopping when the music stopped, moving when the music started, dipping at the end of the song. (but that has limits too, because one invariably sees everybody dipping at the end of the song)

Now, I'm experimenting with different aspects. For example, in a song, I pick an instrument, like the piano. When the piano is 'closed', I danced 'closed' When the piano 'opens', I pull out the moves. Or one could do shines for an instrumental solo (this is quite popular with percussion - everyone shines when timbales or congas start their solos)

its an ongoing process - I always try different ideas. But I sit down and think about it - there are certain 'heavy' moves I reserve for 'heavy' parts of the song. If the song has just begun, and we are on the 'bridge' (the bridge is that part of the song that takes you to the 'hook', or the chorus) then I keep things simple.

Another one I am thinking/planning is to interpret music by the song structures. So if the song structure is: Intro-bridge-coro1-mambo1-coro2-solo1-mambo2-coro3-outro

then I might do certain moves just for the mambo sections, and certain moves for the coros. To clarify, coro means chorus, mambo here means horn section. so mambo1 is different sounding from mambo2, as per the demands of the song. again, coros, and mambos are nice options to 'open' up or do whatever.

also, the above song structure is an example only. the musicians can pick any combination they like. for example, cuban musicians like to start with coro, rather than in intro.

There are thousands of ideas available if you put your mind to it. I don't worry about what's 'right' or 'wrong'. And I have to take care of the girl too - musicality really gets enhanced if you can involve the girl in the process. I don't see any point being musical, when there's no connection.

see, the music is so beautiful, it gives us all these ideas. there is no time to worry about anything else. enjoy the music and the girl you're dancing with. take care

 

[RugKutta]

It's just that your conscious isn't really that conscious, lags behind, and every now then realises that you've grown subconsciously.

Yep, I think that about sums it up. It's at that moment that you have what I like to call a "salsa epiphany", when that bright, shiny light bulb goes off above your head and you hear that heavenly music start to play. At that point you realize, "WOW...I've come a long way!" or "OH, NOW I GET IT!!!"

 

[Big10]

Practice makes perfect? How much practice did it take you before you felt you were finally dancing in the music? What did you practice? What other things did you do to help with your musicality? What was the breakthrough, "aha" moment, for you?

Musicality involves two different things: (1) understanding the music enough to recognize when various accents or other musical changes are coming, and (2) knowing what to do with your body when those moments happen.

For the first aspect, the most important thing to "practice" is simply listening to different Salsa songs over and over again, until you have enough understanding of the musical structure to find the "1" or the "2" (or whichever beat you choose to use as your break) on a consistent basis. After you are clear on that, then it will be much easier for you to syncopate your footwork off of the basic 123-567, yet still return to your fundamental break step. I dance On1, but sometimes when I want to play around with the music, I might just step on 1-3-5-7, or 1-(pause)-5-6-7-8, or whatever. Before I understood the music that way, if my partner and I messed up a move, it might take me a few 8-counts to figure out where to start my footwork again, or I might be switching from breaking on the 1, to breaking on the 7, to breaking on the 5, etc. Nowadays, if something goes wrong, I'm usually back on the 1 by the very next 8-count.

As for the second aspect of musicality (i.e., knowing what to do), I watched a whole lot of dancers to see what they do when musical accents happen -- and not just Salsa dancers, either. Sometimes it's partner dancing, and sometimes it's a solo performer. I'll watch hip-hop, ballet, jazz, tap, pop-music videos, whatever. I've also watched a ton of movie musicals with Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, and other dancers -- and replayed some cool parts over and over again just to see how they wave their arms or twist their feet or transition between moves at certain points in the music. After I've figured out what they were doing, then I'll try to repeat the movement myself while trying to keep it within an 8-count. Basically, that helps you to develop a vocabulary of moves from which to choose when the moment is right and the music hits you a certain way.

After you've developed a strong feel for what to do, and when to do it, then that's when dancing becomes the most fun. Personally speaking, I have the most fun when I'm either dancing to a song that I know very well (and therefore can really plan on hitting the breaks I like) or dancing to a song that I've never heard before. Lots of people get off the dance floor when the DJ plays a song that they don't know -- but I actually like to take those opportunities to challenge myself on how well I can feel the music and try to get "in" it spontaneously.

 

[salsamale]

Thanks for everyone's insight on this. Everytime I read these musicality threads, I find something that becomes newly relevant.

Tried some copa variations last night, for the first time, and it was nice to finally add an 'expansive' move to my repertoire. I suppose I am in that moves-learning/ moves-practicing phase, dancing about 8 or 16 counts behind the music .

 

[englezul]

Thanks for everyone's insight on this. Everytime I read these musicality threads, I find something that becomes newly relevant.

Tried some copa variations last night, for the first time, and it was nice to finally add an 'expansive' move to my repertoire. I suppose I am in that moves-learning/ moves-practicing phase, dancing about 8 or 16 counts behind the music .

Salsa is mod 8, so you're on time.

 

[alemana]

for many of us trained to dance salsa in the most typical kind of salsa classes, improving our musicality would definitely involve the concept of less-being-more.

 

[sweavo]

yeah. my musically- and interpretively best dances are on the nights when I go out deciding just to have a drink and see some friends and 'probably not even dance'. When I inevitably do dance, I am super lazy and only do what comes to mind. The music prods me and I make a shape... I usually try to strike up a rapport with my partner outside of the formalism of salsa too. I get the best compliments on those nights.