When to start open routines?

B

bry_dancer

Well-Known Member
I'm new to the forums but have learned a lot just by reading. Now I have my first question....when is the right time to start open routines? I've been doing closed bronze routines for about a year now and have finished 3 comps (2 pro-ams and 1 am-am). We have a guest pro coming to our studio and my pro partner is encouraging me to get open bronze routines choreographed with him.

My concern is the cost (around ~$500 for 5 routines) and whether I'm ready to do open bronze routines or should continue to focus on getting the basics right in closed routines. How long do people typically dance closed syllabus before starting open routines?

Thanks!
 
The answer will vary wildly from dancer to dancer. I never competed with open syllabus routines, just went closed bronze, silver, gold, and eventually just open. Except for the occasional showcase, I didn't feel like I needed to do anything else.

The years you spend at each level depends a lot on the hours you spend dancing and practicing each week, as well as age, goals, patience, and other factors. One dancer may be ready to move to silver after 6 months, another may not be ready after 6 years...

As for paying another pro $500 to choreograph routines for you and your pro? It's not unreasonable if it covers the cost of both the guest pro, and your pro, I'd guesstimate it's a 2 lesson block. But the guest pro should be able to convert your 5 bronze routines to open bronze and teach them to your pro in half that time, if you're fine getting delegated to just observer and dance dummy. It just takes a few tweaks and additions. But I find if you're going to spend any time with a guest coach, that time is much better spent on hearing their insight on your dancing, getting their advice on what areas to work on, and improving your knowledge of technique, than watching them teach choreography to your pro.
 
Thank you for the detailed answer. That helps. Just to answer your questions and provide a little more info...I'm a 42 year old male and my goals are to improve as quickly as possible and to have fun doing it. I probably spend about 5-7 hours practicing a week. And yes, you are correct that it's a 2 lesson block.
 
Are you in the US and are you competing in NDCA competitions or something else? What style(s)? (Want to make sure my comments would be relevant)
 
I am in the US and compete Am-Am in USA Dance and Pro-Am in NDCA. I'm focused on the 5 American Rhythm dances right now and currently have closed bronze routines that I do with my Am and Pro partners. Thanks!
 
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I'm not sure what doing open bronze routines does for you. For them to need to be open, that means there's something in them that is not allowed in Bronze--most likely something that is allowed in Silver. Is your teacher suggesting it as as way to start working on some Silver elements while keeping most of your routine Bronze syllabus? If most of the elements are not Bronze syllabus, why not just move up to Silver?

Realize that for competitions, the Open Bronze is usually an "anything goes" category. There are some NDCA competitions that restrict Open Bronze to students who are primarily dancing Bronze, but at most competitions whose rules I have read, anybody can enter Open Bronze. Open level dancers use it as an extra place to practice their open routines; silver level dancers use it to practice their silver routines, etc. And not that many competitions have Open Bronze championships, so you are putting a lot of work into something that you cannot use all that much.

Another question is how easily you learn new choreography to the point of being ready to compete with it. Is the plan to have two sets of routines going at once? One for closed Bronze and one for open Bronze?

I personally would rather put my money and time into improving my technique, but what's right for me isn't the same as what's right for you.
 
Mengu said:
The answer will vary wildly from dancer to dancer. I never competed with open syllabus routines, just went closed bronze, silver, gold, and eventually just open. Except for the occasional showcase, I didn't feel like I needed to do anything else.
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And I'm the polar opposite :) I have never competed a closed syllabus routine. I don't even recall ever learning one... but that doesn't mean I haven't learned my syllabus figures. I just did them in a less structured way. And I've never paid for outside choreo, but pro and I both like to look for ideas and tinker with routines.

I went from open bronze, where I was for a while, to open gold very briefly, to open. (And in latin, from open bronze, to a long break, to open. Not recommended unless you are prepared to work your tail off.) The progression really does depend on the dancer.

What 'open bronze' means is also pretty fluid. My open bronze routines were mostly bronze figures with a rare silver/gold one in there. IIRC, they also had a few not-permitted-by-the-book precedes and follows, figures from other dances and maybe some playing with timing. At comps though, I have seen some seriously open routines being attempted by bronze-level dancers (also not recommended. Levels exist for a reason, and will help you progress your skills.)

OP, I'm not sure that anyone can answer your questions until you talk with your pro. Why do they recommend this other pro choreograph for you (is a strength for them?)? Why open bronze and not closed silver? Is this the best use of limited (I'm assuming) coaching time and $$?
 
Thank you for all the great answers! Good food for thought and different perspectives. I can learn new choreography relatively quickly because I practice it incessantly at home and I have another amateur that I practice with. :)

Here is why my pro recommended that I start learning the open routines:
  1. More fun
  2. About showmanship
  3. More freedom in dancing
  4. Next level of dancing due to higher level moves and routines
  5. Guest pro is very good at choreography and is a well respected judge at comps so brings a lot of expertise.
I did ask the question about why open bronze rather than closed silver and she recommended the progression of closed bronze -> open bronze -> closed silver -> open silver, etc.

I'm inclined to trust my pro and go ahead and get the routines, but would still be interested in any other thoughts that people have.
 
Keep in mind that if you go for closed silver routines, you can dance them in open bronze and open silver as well... either dance several levels at the same time, or stick with your planned level progression without changing the routine. If you're someone that likes to keep routines for a while (like, memorizing them is the hardest part for you), that might be a huge plus. And silver has some cool stuff :)

In my experience, it's also rare that am-am has open under prechamp (or novice, in the US), so if you want to keep doing am-am and not learn a second set of routines, opting for closed may be best.

A plus for open pro-am... it's not usually as early in the morning! Many comps do closed first, then open.

There really is no "right" answer. Some pros or schools insist on a set progression, and that works for them and their students. Others (*cough* me) do something totally different, and that works for them. The common factor here is that it works for them. So just figure out what that is for you and you'll be set!
 
FancyFeet said:
Keep in mind that if you go for closed silver routines, you can dance them in open bronze and open silver as well... either dance several levels at the same time, or stick with your planned level progression without changing the routine.
...
In my experience, it's also rare that am-am has open under prechamp (or novice, in the US), so if you want to keep doing am-am and not learn a second set of routines, opting for closed may be best.
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This is what occurred to me, since you're also an am-am dancer. If you add closed silver routines to your current repertoire, you can use them to compete silver at USA Dance comps (along with bronze with your current routines, if you want), doubling your potential entries. Open bronze routines won't do you much/any good on the am-am side. And I wouldn't think you'd want to have three different routines to keep track of per dance, so adding open bronze routines would likely mean delaying closed silver routines for the moment. If you're planning to compete just one level at a time in pro-am, if you add open bronze routines now, you'll still need to keep your closed bronze routines for am-am purposes.

I'd say the question is whether you're currently feeling the lack of "fun" and "freedom in dancing." If having that choreographic flexibility will be motivating for you or will help you work on showmanship in a way you don't feel able to in closed routines, it could be valuable. If you care more about widening your current competitive opportunities and silver steps are enough in terms of "higher level moves," you might prefer using this coach's choreographic skills for closed silver routines instead.
 
You make some great points! Would be nice to use the same routines both pro-am and am-am. I will pass it by my pro to get her thoughts.
 
Talked to my pro. Sounds like we are going to be doing the equivalent of Closed Silver so I can use it for Open Bronze, Closed Silver and Am-Am comps. Thanks for all the feedback!
 
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