When you are in relation with a tango dancer..

[opendoor]

Does the perfect tango embrace exist? This is a spin-off..

...Is everyone solo, and/or a growing stream of exes?

I'm sure, the perfect embrace (dance floor) does exist, but it's a fleeting experience when it comes to a (life) partner. Since converting to tango, I've found all my life partners in the community. But somehow you can't have both a long-term relationship and a perfect embrace —at least not me. Some examples:

I was with a partner for ten years. But the embrace and the ability to walk in a projected fluent caminada deteriorated dramatically from the moment we got together. Last week, she called me and asked for advice on how she could dance better with her new partner. We danced in her spacious apartment, and the embrace and the caminda were as perfect as they were 14 years ago. We could have made an educational film.

With my current life partner the situation is different. Since we got together, she stopped dancing tango! The embrace still is perfect, but she can no longer dance in high heels for orthopedic reasons. Flats don't fit her self-image; she wants to be remembered as the tango princess.

In a third example, the relationship broke up after a short time. But the embrace was and still is perfect. So I guess you can't have both.

 

[JohnEm]

Sorry - I cannot resist!

Perfection!

What even is perfection?

Whose perfection?

Hers? Yours? For both?

Certainly your perfection would not be mine.

If it exists, perfection in dance is transitory.

Especially in Tango.

 

[Brummbaer]

So I guess you can't have both.

'Perfection' isn't one single aspect, and yours isn't mine. When you've got a banquet you don't go out for a snack. I have nothing to complain about

 

[opendoor]

Sorry - I cannot resist!

Nor could I

What even is perfection?

Approximate approach to a vaguely remembered fictional ideal state (in the Platonic sense).

Whose perfection? Hers? Yours? For both?

Initially subjective, but after mutual communication intersubjective.

Certainly your perfection would not be mine.

That's right, anything else would be communist!

If it exists, perfection in dance is transitory. Especially in Tango.

Exactly! That's what my post (s/obv) is about!

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

Even with the same follower the embrace could feel different at different times. Sometime when the right music plays, everything feels great and the embrace feels heavenly. At other time, feel good only...

 

[Bailango]

Even with the same follower the embrace could feel different at different times. Sometime when the right music plays, everything feels great and the embrace feels heavenly. At other time, feel good only...

With some people embrace can be consistent but feelings vary. With others embrace may be inconsistent and feeling consistent. And with some both embrace and feeling could be consistent. Perfect embrace is orthogonal to each of them. It could exist in each of three cases.

However both the dance and embrace to feel heavenly is fleeting even when all else is perfect. Same person, same embrace, same music, one dance could feel heavenly and other less so.

Then the question arises with whom are you likely to have more heavenly moments. In my experience there are certain people/partners with whom it is more likely. Each dance with them is like increasing the odds.

 

[opendoor]

..the question arises with whom are you likely to have more heavenly moments. In my experience there are certain people/partners with whom it is more likely...

I think, or rather, I'm sure there is a group of dance partners who meet this criterion. Remember, dance evolved from a mating ritual. And it is my understanding that belonging to this group means you belong to the pool of potential life partners. In any case, I found my life partners and affairs precisely in this group. There are multiple arenas. I can't boast about money, motor yachts, golf or tennis cups. I challenge you with the quality of my cabeceo, my facial expressions, body language, my embrace, thre quality of movement, and my musicality! And all these aspects must fit together, must be sound and consistent.
So finally I come to the conclusion: its not the embrace. Its the embrace in line with the other aspects.

 

[Rabbit]

You guys are ignoring yourselves as variables.

 

[Miradamiranda]

You guys are ignoring yourselves as variables.

Agree. Blame it all on the followers…

When I think of the majority of my regular and occasional partners, SO many have major issues with posture etc., but most manage to compensate with other qualities. That I feel good in some embraces despite flaws has more to do with connection and compatible anatomy than their embrace technique. And some favorites who have many other musical and stylistic reasons to be among my favorites although their posture ruins some aspects of the embrace.

A few weeks ago I had a number of tandas with a new to me partner who I did an all-day workshop with. One of the themes of the workshop was connection. The exercises were wonderful and worked. We, as dance partners, had agreed to do this workshop after the experience of dancing only one single song together and had found immediate connection. Perfect height for me, nice relaxed personality (yes, that’s part of the embrace). Settling into the embrace the first time of the day of the workshop (I couldn’t remember anything from the previous time we had danced months earlier), it was practically like the first time - with the additional pressure of knowing I’d have to deal with the same person all day. And then, …. that incredible wave of a feeling washing over me, that wow, we are SO compatible with our embrace! Breathtaking! We were both surprised, I could tell. But then we started to dance and everything went wrong. His posture was too upright for a close embrace, compensating for a beer belly pulling him off axis. He remained in a ‘zero position’ while I had to lean into a +2. All we could figure out to do was a walk. But what a walk! Things improved a bit over the course of the day and the evening milonga while we learned to adapt to each other and build trust. Then we were able to dance normally.

Another guy who comes to mind with a perfect and compatible embrace is on this forum (I say no more other than I’ve danced with at least 5 of you that I know of ..)
But why it feels good is a question of his posture/ embrace technique, anatomical compatibility, connection, and personality.

Some people change and often become lazy or get bad habits. One guy who has been a very regular partner - on average a tanda or 3 per week for 8 years when we are in the same city: if you had asked me about a wonderful embrace a few years ago, I’d have thought of him first. I still love dancing with him, but I’ve noticed how much more hunched over he dances now. The comfort of being in his arms has now more to do with being in his arms and connection than a tango embrace.

 

[Brummbaer]

You guys are ignoring yourselves as variables.

Almost every leader seems to seek that 'perfection' for self-gratification, assuming they're 'perfect', rather than considering what they might be doing incorrectly with that partner. That's why it's usually some mansplaining (or own analysis) on what the follower should have done in that tanda.

 

[Bailango]

You guys are ignoring yourselves as variables.

That’s given I thought!

 

[Bailango]

Agree. Blame it all on the followers…

Disagree that anyone is blaming followers.
Both partners are variables. I thought that didn’t had to be spelled out.

When I think of the majority of my regular and occasional partners, SO many have major issues with posture etc., but most manage to compensate with other qualities. That I feel good in some embraces despite flaws has more to do with connection and compatible anatomy than their embrace technique. And some favorites who have many other musical and stylistic reasons to be among my favorites although their posture ruins some aspects of the embrace.

A good embrace can enhance a dance, other things being equal. A good embrace goes beyond technique is what I feel. Postures and body shapes definitely impact the embrace between two people.

 

[Bailango]

Almost every leader seems to seek that 'perfection' for self-gratification, assuming they're 'perfect', rather than considering what they might be doing incorrectly with that partner. That's why it's usually some mansplaining (or own analysis) on what the follower should have done in that tanda.

You are underestimating how much self-aware and self-critical leaders who are good or striving to be good are. What you say applies to a subset of leaders. They usually have no motivation to improve.

As to what the other partner should have done, I am sure both have thoughts about that. You have seen some men who feel only if the women would give them some useful feedback. Milonga is not setting to give feedbacks. Not everyone has art of giving feedback.

 

[Rabbit]

You have seen some men who feel only if the women would give them some useful feedback. Milonga is not setting to give feedbacks. Not everyone has art of giving feedback.

The embrace itself is valuable feedback. Because you don't get that 10/10 embrace if you are not giving your partner what they want.

 

[pianistamediano]

With regards to the embrace, I could make mine more comfortable and pleasurable if I bent my back and leant forward just a bit, but that would come at the cost of being unstable and not being able to walk properly.

I do agree that anatomy plays a big part; I like being able to have my right arm reach fully around while maintaining contact with my hand, forearm and upper arm. My left hand tends to hold my follower's hand closer to our heads, but it does vary positions a lot, from the canyengue-esque way to that one way where I hold my left hand and arm high enough that their entire arm is in contact with my left forearm. I demand of myself a breathing, organic embrace, never a static, lifeless cage. I rarely separate or open up, but when I do, I always return to the embrace.

Of course, all this is nothing unless both of us are comfortable for the whole tanda.