Which UK/European festivals/marathons/encuentros would you recommend?

[Miradamiranda]

I also have not personally noticed cheating from women regarding the registration.

Nor have I seen any cheating but I guess it does take place. Because a female leader friend of mine registered for a marathon as leader and was told that the majority of her dances should be leading - which she would have done anyhow. Arm bracelets were placed on the open side. I was once standing behind a lady at the desk to pick up the arm bands at a different event. She was told she couldn’t get hers till her registration partner arrived! Wow that’s strict. I registered there solo last year but have a partner this year since we were offered a discount. He better not be late, miss a train or something.

 

[itwillhappen]

We don't know the background, and I would also assume that cheating may take place.

But I make a clear distinction between a festival/marathon on the one hand, I buy a ticket in the online shop and expect nothing more. I made it today for the festival in Metz. (Of course, I understand that the organizers like planning stability, given the high costs of such an event.)

For me, on the other hand, an encuentro is a personal matter, it is unthinkable that my partner would sit there in front of the door and wait. Such a faux pas simply should never happen to the host, as he can phone me in time. Yesterday I signed up for an encuentro, months after the deadline. And my partner received a confirmation even before she filled out her form. (Of course, I knew that the host would like to see her at his encuentro.)

 

[Bailango]

The question is whether enough critical mass is engaging in cheating to create imbalance or chaos at festivals. Yes, a butterfly effect is interesting but there are bigger forces to be worried about. There is no evidence to suggest anything more than a few isolated incidents to game the system.

When incentives are misaligned people will try to game the system. If you find more people trying to cheat change the incentives or change the system.

 

[pianistamediano]

Wow that’s strict.

Strict, but unfortunately necessary due to these bad actors! In a better world, dancers wouldn't try to cheat the system, and there wouldn't be any need for such precautions.

 

[itwillhappen]

The question is whether enough critical mass is engaging in cheating to create imbalance or chaos at festivals. Yes, a butterfly effect is interesting but there are bigger forces to be worried about. There is no evidence to suggest anything more than a few isolated incidents to game the system.

When incentives are misaligned people will try to game the system. If you find more people trying to cheat change the incentives or change the system.

There are not only black and white but also shaky partners. The local tangueras are in a bad position, already because of the complaints “why her and not me”. The organizers can therefore be under considerable pressure from their local community and may be tempted to cheat a little themselves, for example by not counting the part-time helper team. All in all, then it's no longer about butterflies, and at some point the mood can change.

 

[daisy_r]

I'm starting to think that large marathons and festivals aren't really my thing.

I was at a large event (600 attendees was what I heard) a week ago, and although I think it was very well organized and I had some good dances there, I was finding it hard to really connect with most people.

The best times for me were:
- very late at night when most of the crowds were gone
- the afternoon milongas, which were much less crowded
- the last day, which was also much less crowded than previous days

I actually like dancing on a full floor, so it wasn't an issue of having the space to dance, but I think that when the room was more full the overall mood shifted, I felt a lot more stress over deciding where to go and what to do.

 

[itwillhappen]

I was at a large event (600 attendees was what I heard) a week ago, and although I think it was very well organized and I had some good dances there, I was finding it hard to really connect with most people.

In general, large events are not for me. But I was recently at the four-day tango festival in Metz, France, with 400 attendees and several very good orchestras. For me it was just conveniently located on the road between two nice encuentros (and a nice encounter with @Miradamiranda at the Lake Constance).
Well, the event seemed to be more attractive to women than to men. And since everything is always in balance, I was compensated for my disadvantages by consistently good to very good dancers. I also got a connection for my weekend in Paris in July. I will at least consider the festival for next year...

 

[Bailango]

I was finding it hard to really connect with most people.

In what way and how you mean it was hard to connect?

 

[Miradamiranda]

The best times for me were:
- very late at night when most of the crowds were gone
- the afternoon milongas, which were much less crowded
- the last day, which was also much less crowded than previous days

That’s to be expected, no? During peak hours you disappear in the crowds, is my experience.
For me a nice big event is 300 people. You can develop a dance rapport with the best matches but can also avoid the not so good matches.
The biggest event I’ve been to is Ostertango in Basel. My first evening there, knowing nobody, I thought I wouldn’t be going back. Just too big. I did have top notch dances, though. I went back the next day and again this year. The best dancing of my life has been there. I’ve developed lasting dance relationships with quite a few of my all time favorite partners who I met there. So I’ll be back next year too for sure.
I tend to be strategic with my time and energy at those big events that go from 1pm till 5.30 am. I take a nap during peak hours so I can keep going like the Energizer Bunny.

 

[daisy_r]

In what way and how you mean it was hard to connect?

Yeah, it's hard to describe exactly what I was reacting to, even more so now that a week has passed.

Most of the embraces felt polite rather than warm. It felt like most people I danced with were going through the motions somewhat, rather than really feeling the music and dancing.

Most of the dances went well, my partners seemed happy, but to me they felt a little empty, like they were lacking in personality, musicality, emotion, playfulness... There were a couple of exceptions but they were quite rare.

Maybe it was my own psychological state that was at fault, maybe I felt too nervous being at such a large event on my own, but I've gone dancing on my own in different cities before and ended up having some amazing dances at the regular weekly or monthly milongas.

 

[Bailango]

Maybe it was my own psychological state that was at fault, maybe I felt too nervous being at such a large event on my own, but I've gone dancing on my own in different cities before and ended up having some amazing dances at the regular weekly or monthly milongas.

Midway through reading the post I started wondering whether this was a factor or may be the ronda was too crowded at the peak time, which could cause “polite but lacking warmth” factor.

I have noticed my own psychological state plays a big part in my perception of how a night is going.

Most of the embraces felt polite rather than warm. It felt like most people I danced with were going through the motions somewhat, rather than really feeling the music and dancing.

In tango a lot of people, dance with those they know. Therefore it is like you know what dance personality is. When dancing with those we haven’t danced with before, it becomes case of hit or miss. More hit than miss because we can only have dance chemistry with far less than 50% of the people. Speaking for myself when I dance locally I mostly know what to expect and can discount my expectations depending on whom I ask to dance. Therefore I am constantly calibrating my expectations. If I danced with half of those at a festival as a stranger, I would be disappointed. I do try to dance with as many followers I haven’t seen before when out locally. That way I sometimes discover new fav partners. Unfortunately most of my newly discovered fav partners will move out of the area within 6 to 24 months. I doubt it’s because of me I can count 4 to 6 from the last year alone.

Most of the dances went well, my partners seemed happy, but to me they felt a little empty, like they were lacking in personality, musicality, emotion, playfulness... There were a couple of exceptions but they were quite rare.

I have only been to a few festivals. None more than 300-350 people. At festivals I observe keenly and take my time on selecting likely targets. I observe how they embrace, how they step, how they play and many other small things. In short I am looking for good dancers to ask. If someone asks me, I will oblige. I haven’t said no to anyone. Usually I have a very good strike rate of selecting those I think are good and they do turn out to be good. I also try to spot good leaders. Then I see who they are dancing with.

My expectations is that at festivals the larger number probably means more number of good dancers. If a % of good dancers is say 10% then that percent of a larger number of attendees should be bigger. Downside is very crowded rondas. I use that as an opportunity to either find good dancers or dance with good ones. Going as a total solo stranger I have also observed that many people are either attending with friends or there are many who know each other from elsewhere (other festivals or cities over the years).

 

[Bailango]

That’s to be expected, no? During peak hours you disappear in the crowds, is my experience.
For me a nice big event is 300 people. You can develop a dance rapport with the best matches but can also avoid the not so good matches.

How do you avoid the not so good matches? How does the size of event make it easier or not to avoiding bad matches?

For me as I said, I am observing and scanning the floor. Making a mental list. Therefore the size is a bit of non factor. Bigger size means moving to the different parts of the floor and locating more targets. I think 500-600 size event might yield very rich targets. At least 30-40 for a weekend. At events I have been that number has been about 10. The rest being average to avoidable.

I will count 200-300 as an event on smaller end of spectrum. Again I have only been to 3 or 4 festivals max.

The biggest event I’ve been to is Ostertango in Basel. My first evening there, knowing nobody, I thought I wouldn’t be going back.

Why? Were you not getting asked enough?

 

[opendoor]

...Most of the dances went well, my partners seemed happy, but to me they felt a little empty....

Hi daisy, I was wondering what you meant by "..hard to.. connect with most people", the participants of the festival in general or the dance partner in your arm.

I don't want to downplay your experience, but it could have been worse. My ex-girlfriend sometimes reacted aggressively. Several followers I know sometimes fall into a kind of depression. This happens either after good and disappointing experiences.

I (leader) judge the quality of a follower more based on intellectual criteria as dissociation, responsiveness, effortlessness.

I seek connection with dancers at festivals through sightseeing, going to restaurants and enjoying cocktails. I usually make contact before the event itself, mostly via FB. Connection besides the dance floor is more important to me than emotional fusion with a dancer on the floor.

 

[daisy_r]

Hm, I still think it's at least partly about the event size.

In tango a lot of people, dance with those they know. Therefore it is like you know what dance personality is. When dancing with those we haven’t danced with before, it becomes case of hit or miss.

I've gone to milongas in other cities as a complete stranger and had fun dancing with people I'd never danced with before, so I don't think it's all down to "it's your first dance with this stranger". Some of my most memorable tandas have been with people I'd never danced with before. My guess is that it might be because smaller venues offer you a feeling of intimacy that you'll struggle to get at a larger venue, and that might put people a bit more at ease.

Following on from that, maybe the reason why the afternoons and late nights felt nicer was because most people there were out on the floor and dancing, rather than sitting and watching/waiting, so maybe we didn't feel so observed and were able to relax a little more.

I don't want to downplay your experience, but it could have been worse.

It wasn't a bad experience overall, but it's definitely making me think hard about whether I want to attend more festivals in the future, which ones, and how I'd approach them. Maybe next time I'll make sure to take friends with me, or pick a smaller event if I'm planning to go alone, or skip festivals altogether and just attend normal practicas and milongas. Less expensive, less pressure, smaller, more intimate... I'm starting to think that I'm more likely to experience the kind of dancing I most enjoy in those circumstances than at large festivals.

 

[itwillhappen]

For me as I said, I am observing and scanning the floor. Making a mental list. Therefore the size is a bit of non factor. Bigger size means moving to the different parts of the floor and locating more targets. I think 500-600 size event might yield very rich targets. At least 30-40 for a weekend. At events I have been that number has been about 10. The rest being average to avoidable.

Similiar for me.
I didn't drive 600km just to dance badly. And then I enter a huge hall with stage spotlights and a smoke machine for neo tango by "Otros Aires". The gender ratio feels like 3:2, and at first glance I recognize some tangueras from other events. Additionally there are a number of ladies with full “battle dress” standing in the invitation areas. The way is foreseeable, I'm hardly interested in couples sitting at the tables anymore.

But I suspect that this target-oriented "chasing mode" gives the current non-targets the feeling that this event could become difficult.