Will ballroom studios close after the baby boomer gen pass on?

[Bailamosdance]

IMHO the dance shows do a big disservice to serious dancers since it portrays what they do as a simplistic oneupsmanship contest rather than an interesting pursuit that is more of a long term endeavor. I think people drip out as soon as they see that it is not something they can do in an hour class once a week.

 

[vit]

Thinking further about this, there may be another reason why salsa and ballroom social scene (in my area at least) are different

In salsa scene, there is big range - from beginner dancers to some very good dancers. Everybody actually has opportunity to ask the follower (and even leader) for a dance, but in reality, beginner won't get much dances with advanced dancers because advanced partner won't be enjoying with him/her. Usually called beginner's hell phase in salsa community. So people are motivated to improve their dancing, just to get more chances to dance with good partners. Actually a kind of similar motivation like in competitive dancing, just that your skills are measured different way

In ballroom social dancing in my area, most people are dancing just with their regular partners, so they are not motivated to actually improve this way. Some of them are motivated by teachers in dancing schools, who are telling them that they have to dance better to impress the audience, or they even think themselves they are able to impress someone with their bad dancing, but this is quite vague ...

 

[Partner Dancer]

People do not base their likes and dislikes of specific dance on their income. They DO base their ability to pursue a path in dance on their disposable income, whether it is a simple social path of showing up for a group lesson, or a more complex path of technical pursuit combining multiple coaches and such. People enjoy something despite the cost, or put another way, if they like something they will find a way to make it work for them.

Few people can tell if they really like or dislike (to do) something if they could not afford to get into it in the first place. I may very well enjoy travelling the world on a private yacht, but alas I'm not so privileged. Also, having enough partners in crime is often related to affordability, as it's just not fun attending a $1000 per person ball or dinner if only a dozen people can pay to go.

 

[Bailamosdance]

The cost of entry to the ballroom world, as you know, is free... A free lesson at your local studio, or a group class at minimal cost at your local 'Y'.

 

[Partner Dancer]

As about social dancing, in my area here in the middle europe, I'm noticing the same trend that started in late 90's, when salsa scene started emerging here. Now, most people under 50 are dancing salsa and not ballroom (as I already described in some other threads). Prices are similar, actually I would say that a typical social dancer is spending more money in salsa than in ballroom, because they are attending more classes and prices of the classes are similar. So in my area, the nature of the dance, more relaxed way of teaching and better quality of teachers seem to be the reasons why most young people are choosing salsa instead of ballroom

As about competitive dancing here, price is surely one of the main reasons, it's much more expensive than before, so the number of competitors is decreasing rapidly and actually only a few couples left, while several years ago there were several blackpool finalist here. Other reason was also a split-up between WDSF and WDC and disagreements about that in the dance community

The systems on the continent and in the states are often different. Here in the states, private ballroom lessons generally cost more than WCS/Salsa/etc. lessons, but ballroom has a more developed syllabus and organization (hierarchy?) and has been using pro-am and private lessons as the cash cow for a long time while the other dance groups only dabble with pro-am and don't rely on privates as much.

Ultimately, the business/economic models/climate will shape the participation factor in terms of age distribution, numbers of dancers, numbers of events, etc..

 

[vit]

Yes, I'm aware of the differences. But I wanted to say that the trend is similar although money doesn't seem to be the reason here, as price of ballroom and salsa group classes is similar here, and also the price of the privates

 

[Steve Pastor]

For your reading pleasure...
Of course, none of these people were Baby Boomers!

Los Angeles 1957

Western ballroom enthusiasts are astonishingly numerous - and organized.
Out here it's the Bop and Swing with the teen-agers.
Business is thriving at the ballrooms, which are enormous.
Palladium in Hollywood...can accomodate 6,000.
the Aragon on Lick Pier at Ocean Park...Lawrence Welk...often packs the establishment to its capacity of 5,200.


Greenock, Scotland 1945-1955

70,000 inhabitants... fifteen dance hall venues...four of which were capable of accommodating 400 to 1,200 patrons. Dancing was offered on every night of the week at many halls and at weekends in almost all halls.

Last week talked to some folks and, like most folks, they had no idea what the dance scene was like when Arthur Murray studios (recently opened in LA) were teaching "smooth swing."

Here's one example

Los Angeles 1944

Foreman Phillips took over the old Venice ballroom on Venice Pier, California..with the Los Angeles County Barn Dance and played to a paid attendance of more than 4,200. Since then he has operated the place for weekend dancing- Friday, Saturday and Sunday with Western and hillbilly bands, and has averaged over 7,500 paid attendance with some week-ends running to 22,000.

 

[vit]

Los Angeles 1944

... and has averaged over 7,500 paid attendance with some week-ends running to 22,000.

Obviously there was no TV and internet at the time ...

 

[Partner Dancer]

Yes, I'm aware of the differences. But I wanted to say that the trend is similar although money doesn't seem to be the reason here, as price of ballroom and salsa group classes is similar here, and also the price of the privates

Capitalism vs. socialism contributing to the pricing systems, I suppose.

I instinctively think Salsa and WCS are "easier" to get into as a newbie, but can't be sure because they weren't my first exposure to partner dance. Every dance "style" has its "beginner hell" but some environments are still more accommodating than others. Being able to "buy" that accommodation certainly helps.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

Yeah, maybe I am getting them mixed up, but I just know they were either teenagers during the 70's or before that, like during the 50's. I thought that would put them at about 50+.

I was a teenager during the 1970s, and am in my 50s now. There was no ballroom in the high school social scene in the 1970s. Saturday Night Fever, which started the Disco "craze", came out in 1977, but sling hustle seems to have taken a while to develop after that, and it never became a standard thing to do the way foxtrot and swing were decades earlier.

In the 1950s, sure, there was enough ballroom and other partner dancing to support big ballrooms, as Steve Pastor points out. People who grew up then are in their 70s now, though, not their 50s.

If you're seeing people in their 50s in the studios now, it's because, as others have said, their kids are grown up so they have time and money to spend.

I thought it was just the few studios I started out with, but many owners & franchisees have told me that senior citizens are their bread & butter.

Sure. That's been true of franchise studios for a long time - I know that in the 1980s, a large majority of their students were retired women. I do think they might be in trouble as those people in their 50s retire in the coming decades, because unlike the current retirees, they weren't exposed to ballroom as kids, and might choose other activities.

Meanwhile, in this area at least, there are independent studios springing up that specialize in kids or in other age groups.

 

[Warren J. Dew]

I was a teenager during the 1970s, and am in my 50s now. There was no ballroom in the high school social scene in the 1970s. Saturday Night Fever, which started the Disco "craze", came out in 1977, but sling hustle seems to have taken a while to develop after that, and it never became a standard thing to do the way foxtrot and swing were decades earlier.

In the 1950s, sure, there was enough ballroom and other partner dancing to support big ballrooms, as Steve Pastor points out. People who grew up then are in their 70s now, though, not their 50s.

If you're seeing people in their 50s in the studios now, it's because, as others have said, their kids are grown up so they have time and money to spend.


Sure. That's been true of franchise studios for a long time - I know that in the 1980s, a large majority of their students were retired women. I do think they might be in trouble as those people in their 50s retire in the coming decades, because unlike the current retirees, they weren't exposed to ballroom as kids, and might choose other activities.

Meanwhile, in this area at least, there are independent studios springing up that specialize in kids or in other age groups.

I do worry about the emphasis on competition in the high school and college crowd. People who were on the football team in high school do not tend to come back to it as a social activity when they retire.

 

[Partner Dancer]

I do worry about the emphasis on competition in the high school and college crowd. People who were on the football team in high school do not tend to come back to it as a social activity when they retire.

Bingo.

Dance is best viewed as a collaborative/cooperative effort rather than a competitive/antagonistic one, as many other facets of life are. But somehow we've been marketed to believe that competition is always good, oftentimes for business reasons.

Has any AM on DWTS ever taken up partner dancing as a regular life activity, in the decade or so it's been on the air?

 

[cornutt]

I was a teenager during the 1970s, and am in my 50s now. There was no ballroom in the high school social scene in the 1970s.

Same here. I never even saw any partner dancing, other than grab-n-sway slow dancing. There was disco, but to get into the discos back then you had to be 21. By the time I was old enough, disco was dying out. And it's not clear to me, from what I've been told by people who were there, that very much of the disco dancing was partner dancing in any kind of hold or frame.

That's been true of franchise studios for a long time - I know that in the 1980s, a large majority of their students were retired women. I do think they might be in trouble as those people in their 50s retire in the coming decades, because unlike the current retirees, they weren't exposed to ballroom as kids, and might choose other activities.

The last of the franchise studios in my area disappeared about ten years ago. It's all independent studios and clubs (USA Dance, etc.) now.

 

[RiseNFall]

Today's 50+ clients grew up in a time when partner dance was still ingrained in culture. Half the people on here are in agreement with that much. That's why they didn't need to be yesterdays competitors to be interested in doing something they've always wanted to do but never had time or money.

I know others have said this, but just in case there is any doubt, those of us in our 50's did NOT grow up with ballroom dancing or even partner dancing. Zero partner dancing when I was in high school in the late 60's early 70's. Really, Bob Dylan's singing does not lend itself to partner dancing. (I was going to say Rolling Stones, but I can think of some that is good WCS). It was never on my list of things I wanted to do if I had the time or money. I can't really explain exactly how this happened to me...alien brainwashing or something? And, despite my user name, when I first started taking lessons I refused to learn the waltz. My exact statement was, "life is short and I would rather salsa". What can I say? They did an excellent job of not gloating as I came around....

 

[Franz Jostopovich]

It was a poor choice of words in the title I created. I realize that now after reading some insightful replies. I was generalizing to get a sounding board of how much was true or not about correlations between generations & tradition. I guess I didn't really know how else to ask about the future of ballroom studios without being vague, which might lead to an unfocused thread. It's great to read your firsthand experience & how your opinions of partner dance has changed from high school to today, growing up in past generations. Also the differences & similarities of modern generations compared & contrasted with past generations & how they make up the student bodies of ballroom studios.

The football analogy is a good one. Alumni could revisit the glory days with flag football. Sort of like doing single time or 4/4 time swing instead of the lindy they used to be able to do. I'll probably be the same someday, do what I can to keep moving & for the enjoyment of it. I just wonder how many people will be there in the studios with me then.

I noticed some of the younger ladies come into the franchises for the intro lesson & have taken some form of ballet, tap or jazz when they were kids of pre teens. They'll walk out after going from a free or $35 intro lesson to being offered a set for a few hundred dollars. If they are persuaded to bau the 3-5 intro set of lessons, they'll avoid taking the last lesson, so that they won't get the renewal/medal program chat. They may have seen something like dwts or a pbs comp & expect a tall dark & handsome hunk for a teacher. In reality they'll more often get a guy around their own age who isn't going to give flashy choreograph & it's different than what she'd anticipated. Young guys are even less interested in trying it than older bachelors or married men, because of the macho thing or it isn't hip. Young couples sometimes take group classes at a recreational center or independent studio once or for a week or at most month series. After that they disappear. I always certain there are fun people to dance with at studios when I go out now, but the future of this look uncertain.