Word of Advice for New Partnership

[Corne]

I think she is very, very lucky. Over this part of the country. Lady always offer to pay for the lessons as there are not that many male dancers.

I was also willing to pay for our private lessons with a pro. We have such a shortage of beginner-intermediate male dancers that if money was the difference between having or not having a dance partner i would fund the bill. I had a potential dance partner but he wasn't willing to drive a bit in order to take "free" private lessons...... There is only that much that i am prepared to do. Of course, no pro-am comps here.....

 

[elisedance]

I think she is very, very lucky. Over this part of the country. Lady always offer to pay for the lessons as there are not that many male dancers.

Hi telespin,
welcome to DF - can you indicate where you are - I assume the US (some of us are in other countries). What you post is rather interesting - and maybe a bit alarming. You must have some very spoiled men there!

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

I was also willing to pay for our private lessons with a pro. We have such a shortage of beginner-intermediate male dancers that if money was the difference between having or not having a dance partner i would fund the bill. I had a potential dance partner but he wasn't willing to drive a bit in order to take "free" private lessons...... There is only that much that i am prepared to do. Of course, no pro-am comps here.....

I offered initially to drive her to the studio, even though my place is between hers and the studio. What we've worked out is that she'll take public transit to meet me, then I'll drive us to the studio. The question, then: is $0.15/mile an acceptable rate of reimbursement for her drive to the train station?

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Congratulations on finding a partner. :banana:
Over here, the couple have to dance in the age catagory of the older person. Having said that, remember TC that she has asked you. She may be a 'better' dancer than you at this point but she obviously thinks you are good enough, so don't think of yourself as the liability.
I don't believe you should be paying for all the lessons. It is a partnership, which means that as much as possible everything should be equal. Sorry to find a negative but that aspect doesn't sit right with me.
A partnership of quality requires mutual respect. In most new partnerships, one may think (and actually be or not) better than the other but if that is pushed into one's face then it can lead to many negative feelings. If you can, I would rearrange the financial agreement. If you have already made this arrangement though, that could be tricky. I would then put a time limit on how long you will pay fully, perhaps a couple of months, and then you share equally. The lady can't have it all her way - she already has chosen the coaches, albeit good ones, but still her choice. Please, don't think you aren't good enough and then get walked on. She asked you.

Thanks, meow!

I've already agreed to the financial arrangement. At first, I'd thought that she was investing time and energy for no immediate gain and only an uncertain future payoff. When I asked her what she might be getting out of it, she said that she would benefit (if only a little) from the lessons, having gone the last year without coaching. I will wait to see how much attention she gets during the lessons and consider asking her to contribute accordingly. I've never had a real partner in all my 1.5 years of dancing, so I've been feeling a bit...well...desperate. Thanks for reminding me that I do have some negotiating power.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Hi TC. Congrats on the partnership - and as an older (ahem) dancer (though with a partner of nearly the same age) let me add a few notes.

Lessee, where to begin? The only really important issues are, as emphasized all through this thread (thanks for digging it up by the way, those folks back in 05 knew what they were about eh?) that you are physically compatible and that you have the same expectations and goals. You obviously enjoy dancing with her and she with you so go for it.

On age: not an issue as far as dancing is concerned unless she can not keep up with you - but thats true for any partner. This may become an issue with time as you become more adept and want to move more - but its just something that you will have to be tuned in to - and something that may feed into the next statement! which is:
Just as with life partners, unless she is very secure she will likely start to worry that you will improve with her and then find a younger thing to run off with. Frankly, that is exactly what is very likely to happen as your level improves. While you should not worry about it now you need to be aware of it. It is, of course, an issue for dance partnerships between people who do not also have a life-committment but it will likely be more acute here. Thus, don't be surprized if she needs a bit more assurance that you are still committed and also if she seems to be a bit 'over-protective'.

It's hard for me to imagine that happening (sounds so soap-opera-ish), given the obligation I feel I'm incurring, but I'll try to keep that in mind.

On ability. You mentioned that your partner competed at pre-champ but not if she was also doing well - say, in the top 4 of comps with semis. Doing pre-champ does not necessarily mean being trained for it. If she and her partner were promoted out of syllabus (by winning he proscribed number of Gold events) they she is truly a star and you should treasure her above all material posessions (!). However, if not then there is a possibility (I only raise it as a reality check) that she never really competed basic training. If so, she may need as much training as you. [And in also which case she should pay as much for the lesson as you too, see below.]

Good point. I really don't know her comp results.

Competition. If you want to compete in AM/Am you should realize that she may not (probably will not - it depends on your local AM organization) be permitted to move to a lower level. If she has competed in pre-champ then prepare yourself for your first competition - in pre champ! This is a major issue for your dance development. In my opinion (and I woudl guess most here) one should not skip the syllabus steps in competition - once you do open you do not have the time or energy to work as hard on basic method as you need and it can be a rough road unless you are truly brilliant. Doing this in pro/am beats not doing it at all (it may even be better with the right coach since you get personal attention). This may, actually, be a solution if you have infinite resources and time - do pro/am basic method while working on the partnershp. I think that would be a fantastic combination as you would have the benefits of both worlds - expert personal training combined with an experienced partner for unlimited practice.

I agree that I need to learn the concepts taught by the syllabus. I don't think adding pro/am would work financially for me. If it came to it, and I could be dance floor furniture that miraculously stayed out of everybody's way, I would dance syllabus figures regardless of the heat proficiency level. I suppose I could still get floor time in uncontested Student/Student heats.

On money. Its one of the anomalies of partner dancing that you pay evenly for the lesson but usually the coach spends about 3:1 time on the man than on the woman. 'Thats life' in dancing. In your case it is more extreme if (as above) your partner has an excellent basic method. I do not see a problem with you paying more than half - but I do see one with the way you have set it up. First, she should make some contribution - if nothing else she is spending time with the coach and there will inevitably be issues that are for your partnership that she should be contributing to. Second, the way you put it it is open ended 'until you are at her level'. Are you kidding? This could be 5 years or more!

That reminds me of my earlier remark about potentially outliving a partner...

I am assuming you have similar resources then I would suggest she start off paying 20% of the lesson cost (as an investment in the partnership) and then you set milestones. By the time you are at silver/gold level she will be getting as much out of this as you - or rather as much as any woman gets. Stay tuned to how much attention the coach gives her - if it is significant then you may want to revisit this agreement.

Gee, I've gone on rather - the main thing is that you have a partner and thats something I for one really value - you can now indulge in its pleasures which means doing what I did last night - an hour practice, one and a half of lesson and then another hour practice - all for the cost (shared in my case) of one hour training.

Good luck!!

Thank you for all the advice, elisedance!

 

[meow]

Thanks, meow!

I've already agreed to the financial arrangement. At first, I'd thought that she was investing time and energy for no immediate gain and only an uncertain future payoff. When I asked her what she might be getting out of it, she said that she would benefit (if only a little) from the lessons, having gone the last year without coaching. I will wait to see how much attention she gets during the lessons and consider asking her to contribute accordingly. I've never had a real partner in all my 1.5 years of dancing, so I've been feeling a bit...well...desperate. Thanks for reminding me that I do have some negotiating power.

Yes, you do have some negotiating power - you are a male. With more ladies than men around, of course you do.
Coaches were always saying to me when my son was a junior and we were negotiating a partnership -"Remember, you have the BOY!" Having said that though, I must admit I never really used that power and always played fair. I think that has taught my son to be a better person/dance partner.
But, you were asked by this lady so she must see potential. Value yourself and keep reminding yourself that it is a partnership with all that entails - money, travel, lessons, responsibility, courtesy etc.,.....
I truly wish you luck. This will be the first step of many....once out on the comp floor she will value you as you will be seen by partnerless ladies wanting to check out your status.

 

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Coaches were always saying to me when my son was a junior and we were negotiating a partnership -"Remember, you have the BOY!"

:uplaugh:

Thank you for the advice and encouragement, meow. I'll try not to embarrass myself too much during the first lesson (today). Speaking of which, I was pleasantly surprised at the lesson price. It doesn't make sense to me that a competitive pro can cost the same (or even less) as a one-year-out-of-training staff instructor. Hmmm...time to dig up an instructor compensation economics thread.

 

[samina]

hey, TC... good luck! enjoy the journey...

 

[tunape]

I don't think this has been mentioned much... but I try view partnerships as a team work. We work together to collaborate, we try to make each other's lives(in terms of dancing technique, and life style) easier, and show compassion and care for each other's well being. I think the latter is probably the most important - that no matter what happens, we still respect each other and value each other as people, as dancers, and as partners. Comments and feedback during practice is geared towards productive work which makes us dance better, but should not diminish the other person. This is sometimes harder than it sounds!

put it simply, "show lots of lovin' for your partner"(doesn't have to be romantic).

 

[kimV6]

I don't think this has been mentioned much... but I try view partnerships as a team work. We work together to collaborate, we try to make each other's lives(in terms of dancing technique, and life style) easier, and show compassion and care for each other's well being. I think the latter is probably the most important - that no matter what happens, we still respect each other and value each other as people, as dancers, and as partners. Comments and feedback during practice is geared towards productive work which makes us dance better, but should not diminish the other person. This is sometimes harder than it sounds!

put it simply, "show lots of lovin' for your partner"(doesn't have to be romantic).

haven't had time to read the whole thread, but i feel like two things are musts: goal-setting and friendship. as tunape alluded to, team work is obviously a huge part. the rate of our growth has always run parallel to our friendship and relationship; when we are chummy and old friends, the ease with which we can communicate, identify problems, and correct mistakes is great.
goal-setting is an even bigger part. i've seen a lot of partnerships end because the two partners aren't on the same page in terms of what they want out of the partnership. this includes everything from what style they'd like to work on, to how serious they want to practice. goal-setting at the outset, and constantly adjusting those goals is important.

 

[Joe]

BTDT, they don't last long.

 

[elisedance]

put it simply, "show lots of lovin' for your partner"(doesn't have to be romantic).

interesting how you put that - maybe the wrong thread - but sounds like you would prefer for it to be romantic? In my limited experience (which obviously is not the case for many other people) a dance partnership works best for the long term if it is platonic. That way your committment to dancing together is not confounded by every other committment/responsibility of a relationship. I wonder also if this is different for standard and latin styles: the expression of emotional attachment is important in both but it probably much more overt in latin? And again, I'm sure this has been discussed before, then does an emotional attachment more important in latin than standard?

 

[iluv2Samba]

interesting how you put that - maybe the wrong thread - but sounds like you would prefer for it to be romantic?

I don't think tunape was referring to a romantic relationship between dance partners. It sounds to me that he meant we should be good friends with our dance partners and care for their well being supporting them both on and off the dance floor.

 

[elisedance]

Hmm, thats not exactly how I read it. But TP, is that what you meant?

 

[tunape]

I don't think tunape was referring to a romantic relationship between dance partners. It sounds to me that he meant we should be good friends with our dance partners and care for their well being supporting them both on and off the dance floor.

sorry for the confusion. I was trying to say that there could be lots of "lovin" as in close friendship, or respect for each other, and not in the romantic sense of "lovin". If it chooses to go the latter, that's a whole different issue.