"Working the room"

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

That is one of my (many) pet peeves. If the class is supposed to be on "X", I don't want to be spending >70% of the time on "Y".

That is one of the reasons why I hardly ever take random group classes anymore. Even if I come with my own partner, it does not help much because the rest of the class may be completely unprepared to learn the intended material, so the teacher has to adapt.

For example, once I signed up for a workshop named "variations in ocho cortado". Soon after the class began, it turned out that 90% of the attendants, who, I assume, were fully literate and read the title of the workshop beforehand, nonetheless, had no idea what "ocho cortado" was, not mention being able to lead it. And things like that happen all the time.

I guess, if instructors start enforcing the level, they will not make any money. Therefore, they just work with what they get.

So, as far as the group classes concerned, I mostly take "fundamentals and technique" nowadays. Working on fundamentals is what makes my dancing progress most anyway.

 

[jantango]

It's no different here. I don't expect a teacher to spend the whole evening dancing with nothing but newbies, if that teacher is not the host/organizer of the event. I do expect the person who is hosting the dance, whether a teacher or not, to reach out and mingle. It's just good business sense if nothing else. I mean, why patronize any business where the proprietor ignores you and does not make you feel welcome?

I feel that the subject of teachers participating at their own milongas seems to be following the tradition of ballroom dance classes and dances established in the USA. This is not the case in Buenos Aires where I live. You are expecting special treatment at your hometown dance, but rest assured you won't have an organizer lining up tandas for you in BsAs.

In the venues where there is a group class before a milonga, it is common for the teachers to disappear once the milonga has started. If they do stay around, it is for the purpose of relaxing and having a drink while they chat with a student after class.

Generally, those who organize a milonga in Buenos Aires are not making a living as a teacher. The milonga is their business, and there are those with two or three milongas a week. For the most part, they are present to see that everything runs smoothly and guests are attended. The majority of organizers do not even set foot on the floor during their milonga. There is enough to do with overseeing the seating and serving of 200 or more people. The role of organizer in Buenos Aires is clear -- make certain that everyone is attended and the music gets dancers onto the floor. You are greeted at the door and escorted to your table. Then you are on your own.

Celia Blanco is an example. She has a large staff for collecting admission, checking coats, security, bartenders, waiters, kitchen staff, and deejay. Things happen and need to be handled quickly and efficiently. Bottles fall off tables, wine glasses break, someone gets ill or falls, someone loses something, an argument disrupts the dancing, etc. The list is endless. She has no time to be dancing while managing her four milongas each week.

Next time you attend a dance, observe the organizer/teacher running around taking care to see that everything is handled for the event. It is no small task.

 

[Dave Bailey]

That is one of my (many) pet peeves. If the class is supposed to be on "X", I don't want to be spending >70% of the time on "Y".

Yeah, me too.

I find class titles can be particularly misleading for guest teachers. Which is one reason for avoiding guest teachers unless you know them.

 

[Dave Bailey]

I feel that the subject of teachers participating at their own milongas seems to be following the tradition of ballroom dance classes and dances established in the USA.

Nope.

If you look at my OP, I said:

...To me, this behaviour is self-evidently good practice - and, probably, good business as well.

However, very few of the London professionals actually do this.

So, am I missing something? Is my feeling wrong?

I was talking about my local London scene.

This is not the case in Buenos Aires where I live. You are expecting special treatment at your hometown dance, but rest assured you won't have an organizer lining up tandas for you in BsAs.

Yes. I'd expect that would be the case in BsAs.

I'm not trying to say what should happen in BsAs. I'm trying to ask why is this not happening in my local venues.

 

[jennyisdancing]

Celia Blanco is an example. She has a large staff for collecting admission, checking coats, security, bartenders, waiters, kitchen staff, and deejay. Things happen and need to be handled quickly and efficiently. Bottles fall off tables, wine glasses break, someone gets ill or falls, someone loses something, an argument disrupts the dancing, etc. The list is endless. She has no time to be dancing while managing her four milongas each week.

Next time you attend a dance, observe the organizer/teacher running around taking care to see that everything is handled for the event. It is no small task.

Well, that's different at most dance events in the U.S., at least, most of those that I have attended. Milongas (and other dance events) are not usually held in restaurants or bars. Typically they are held at a dance studio. There is no staff to hang up coats or serve anything. People hang up their own coats, and if there is food, it is served buffet-style and people serve themselves. Usually there is no bar, so it's BYOB. Admission is collected by volunteers.

Even if the event is held at a restaurant or bar, the dance organizer still is not responsible for supervising the waitstaff or kitchen staff; those folks are employed by the restaurant. The dance organizer only supervises the DJ.

So in my experience, the organizer usually is a dancer/teacher, and usually spends some time socially dancing since they are not that busy running the event once it is underway.

 

[Zoopsia59]

The dance organizer only supervises the DJ.

Around here, the DJ often IS the organizer... and a teacher. Not always.. sometimes they can get other people interested in DJ'ing, and even when they can't, they usually have the playlist set, so that anyone can push the buttons. Then they can at least dance every now and then.

I have known teachers who didn't dance with students. In a very small community with only one main teacher (as this community used to be many years ago) I can see that the teacher might not want to even start down that road. If he dances with one student, he has to dance with all of them or there'll be complaints and problems. Suddenly his or her whole tango experience is now about dancing with people who are not satisfactory partners on his level, in class or at social dances.

However, it still causes problems even if the teacher doesn't pick and choose from among his students, and I remember people complaining about the teacher who never danced with any of them, only with his friends who came from out of town to a milonga. So it's a tough spot to be in either way.

The situation here has changed considerably since then and now there are more teachers and more variety of approaches. Dancers travel around the region to milongas rather than only going to the one "at home". The original teacher left, and long term students became teachers. There are both male and female teachers and many guest artists who come to the region. It is less noticeable when a teacher has an annoying "policy" because it's "mixed up" more now. And of course, being the DJ is a much more "legitimate" way to avoid dancing than simply being standoffish or snobby.

My personal pet peeve is guest teachers who give workshops and privates at least once or twice here every year, know everyone in the community, come to the milonga and still don't dance with anyone except what seem to be a random few. Obviously they can't dance with everyone who takes the workshop, and they probably can't spend the whole evening dancing, but I would think that they might give SOME priority to those who consistently take privately from them on every visit. I realize that the money for a private is paying for a lesson, not a dance partner, but as someone else said, it makes good business sense to take special care of those people who are forking over significant amounts of money to work with you whenever they can.

It's especially galling when the teacher mentions the milonga during the lesson, asking if you will be there, and implying (or outright saying) that he will dance with you.... and then never does. Ever. I've even had a teacher who diod that TALK to me for an entire tanda without asking me to dance at all!

I've known teachers who dance primarily with their students, teachers who give priority to private students, teachers who don't dance with anyone, teachers who dance with potential students, teachers who dance only with personal friends, teachers who dance with only other really good dancers regardless of student/friend status, and teachers who don't dance much because they DJ. I've known female guest teachers who will dance with students who ask them, although only a brave few do. I've seen pretty much every possible approach.

My personal approach is that I always dance with anyone who takes lessons from me, but since so few do, that's not a big deal. Other than that, I don't worry about it anymore. Personal finances have prevented me from continuing to take lessons from the visitor who always says he'll dance with me but never does, so my disenchantment with him is solved already.

I DO think it makes sense for organizers or teachers to help ease beginners into the scene by whatever means works. For some people that DOESN"T mean dancing with them. I've known students who were too nervous to dance with the teacher, or felt bad for taking the teacher's time in a milonga when s/he could be dancing with "someone good". Yes, I have seen people turn down a request from their teacher because they don't feel ready!

I also think when people see the "major players" givng attention to new people or beginner dancers, the attitude spreads and that's good for the community. Maybe in very large cities like NY or London, it makes little difference. In a smaller community like the majority of the USA dance communities, the attitude set by someone highly visable is contagious and important.