TTanguero
Forum Master
I know of followers who prefer practicas, as they tend to be small and role-balanced, where everyone dances with everyone, so they can dance non-stop.
A bad practice partner is better than no partner?
- Thread starter OthinkingDesign
- Start date
JournalInTime
Forum Master
You'd have to ask them. We're talking artistic minds, so they're bound to be taking liberties with words. The "correct" verb might not be "can" (not).
The further you go, the better you become at dancing with everyone . . . but also, the further you go, the less interested you are in dancing with everyone. The two are 100% compatible, and I think this describes the teacher situation I mentioned.
I'm far from there, but I've increasingly been taking breaks to dance more with style-compatible followers. When I dance every tanda, I necessarily have to dance out of style, which isn't as fun for me as it used to be, as "can dance with everyone" hides a lot of work on the dancefloor that feels sort of tiring after all day at the day job.
That is never the problem.
That is. When I'm dancing with a straight-as-a-pin follower who likes to orbit way out at arm's reach, refuses share any weight, and puts embellishments everywhere, I feel like I'm an accessory and enjoy it less. I prefer a weight-sharing follower who likes to turn so close that no opening is required at all, and who might mark three or four accents with embellishments at most.
What I'm saying isn't tango specific-- it's follow specific.
From the point of view of a follow, someone who wants to work on "cool moves" but not master "basics" like walking is someone who does not permit you to learn "cool moves" because your brain is over loaded figuring out what the lead even is. With this sort of partner it is difficult to get repetitions of steps you already do know but just want to make more fluid and it is impossible to be able to "think" about new steps you are just learning because the lead is likely to be jerking you around, you spend too much time "guessing" and some elements of the lead may even contradict what you are supposed to do. (The lead might say "side" when you are supposed to step forward etc.)
The only things this lead could be good for are:
* To test a new teacher or pro-partner to see if she's ready to lead ams in pro-AM.
* To provide an opportunity to show of your dress and shoes on the dance floor.
To some people this guy will look good. And his walk may be good enough for many social dancers.
But no one looking for a practice partner and seriously trying to 'improve' or learn "cool moves" should voluntarily pick this guy for a practice partner. The only way he is going to become an attractive practice partner for an am is if he finds a partner who insists he do nothing but walks. And then, he'll only get better if he decides that as long as he is doing this he should think about improving his walk.
He probably would reject that partner-- because he wants to learn "cool moves".
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
I think teachers who find a balance in their classes of integrating substantial technique elements AND some cool vocabulary will keep customers coming back. It’s not a linear learning process. 6 years of fundamentals before a cool move. If you are learning to play, say, the violin, and you are not ‘allowed’ to play a melody before you have spent 6 years playing beautiful long notes...
I think teaching some cool moves in the beginning is essential to bringing new dancers into the fold. As long as they are not dangerous or obstructive etc. A casual observer of tango probably doesn’t start wanting to dance based on all the subtle qualities we experience after we become more skilled. These are things we likely learn to appreciate during the process. And our motivation becomes self perpetuating, exactly for these reasons:
You don’t want lack of technique holding you back. Or limiting who you can dance with.
Miradamiranda
Well-Known Member
Oh, take those comments with a grain of salt. There are for sure some provocations here and there. A lot is said tongue-in-cheek. And we are many with strong opinions here - it’s our passion, after all. And there are splits in the scene. And there is no one true way.
That's the right way to teach. But some leads (and I'm sure some follows) will just ignore these substantial technique elements and 'wait' for the "real stuff" to be discussed. Like it or not, it is difficult to just "mix in" technique with "cool moves". Some people will go back and improve their basics, some see that as a "move" that is "already mastered".
It's a problem. When picking practice partners, individual dancers to need to figure out who is who and gracefully deal with the issue.
The key point there is teachers. Not some random person in a practica.
But I agree with you. The alleged learning style (myth?) in Argentina/Uruguay isn't what many new learners in first-world countries, or even just 'nowadays', seem to want. Generally they probably want to be 'good enough' to be able to invite someone/be invited to dance at a 'milonga', or just a 'dance'. And some moves with a 'wow' factor.
And so we evolve from that 'mythology' of how to learn to dance social AT, and how to encourage new beginners (other threads...). I saw one promo recently along the evangelisation lines of 'invite a friend and get a free lesson' for both.
I've seen some good teachers who have managed that; others, meh...
It's always that problem of 'good' teachers in a domain with no official standards beyond hearsay, and where it's often just another 'side hustle'.
TTanguero
Forum Master
Someone once said to me that the better you get, the fewer the partners who can give you a satisfying dance.
Five years in, I'd modify that slightly, as I don't think it's specifically about getting 'better,' but rather dancing enough to know what you do and don't enjoy – what does and doesn't give you satisfaction.
This is why I personally believe the role imbalance in tango is a problem for leaders as well as followers. In an ideal world, I'd want to be able to dance with the most compatible followers to the best (to my ears) music. But when there are so many followers left sitting, I don't feel I have that luxury.
OthinkingDesign
Active Member
This was really insightful, thanks for sharing!
We do have vested interest increasing the size of pool and number of good dancers. It is disappointing when a promising beginner quits. Double so if it is due to what they encountered within the tango scene. You can’t control it, but we can still lament the behavior or actions that drive away people
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Hopefully, some are smiling. I guess you can socialize during the tanda if there's nowhere else to do it. Although that is limited.
This was me at one time.
There were a few years where I would go to practicalonga on a weekend afternoon and skip the serious milongas at night. Practicalonga was not much different than Milonga - line of dance, tandas, cortina’s, etc. But it was relaxed and you didn’t had to dress up. The only other milonga I would go for the last hour was not a milonga in traditional sense. It played mix tandas alternating between traditional and neuvo. The atmosphere was very relaxed and it didn’t had any hangups of a traditional milonga.
I had other things and hobbies that meant going to a milonga at night was an afterthought.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Yes, this is a problem. A lot of folks want to go directly from zero to hero in six months of classes. The best dancers, followers and leaders, have good technique, good balance, good form, and so on. There are some very good dancers forego "cool moves" entirely to simply engage in enjoyable tandas that express the music being played. Some are very experienced, some are not but they all have certain qualities as dancers (followers in my case). A lot of guys who want to do those cool moves and forego technique are found among the ranks of "those who will never learn."
I can attest to it. Other dancers will too. This does get discussed among the dancers. It is somewhat similar to job satisfaction at work. If your work is more mundane and you crave something challenging, interesting and engaging, you will be dissatisfied. It is very hard to tell someone to make mundane work interesting by being creative about making it fun.
It also gets very challenging to find a practice partner where you can really improve your skill as you get advanced.
That used to be the case during early days (first five or six years). The number of partners with whom you could get satisfactory dances was more. With experience and better skills that subset keeps getting smaller and smaller. That’s one reason people start going to festivals.
Role imbalance at compatible skill level can also be a problem. I am guessing in the scenes that are follower heavy there are more number of followers at advance or good skill levels than equivalent skilled men. Therefore a follower who gets satisfaction from dancing with a highly skilled leader, would not have her problem solved dancing with double role dances unless they are similarly highly skilled.
To get a dance, to get a dance that’s fun, and to get a dance that’s very satisfying are three different things. You do want at least a few dances that were fun or very satisfying to make your visit to milonga count.