A good sylabus for close embrace Tango learning

[Lui]

What makes anyone think they are qualified to teach?

There is no tango diploma and that might be a good thing, but maybe there are a few indicators, that are helpful for one's self evaluation.

1. Your teachers think it’s a good idea that you are teaching and/or help them. BTW, if you have no respect for your teachers or you are convinced that you are as good or better as your teachers, maybe it’s time to find more qualified teachers.
   
   
2. You have tried (as a an pupil) and evaluated many different styles of teaching, which means you have taken part in different classes for more than six weeks. You don't necessary need to like them, However, it's enlightening to looked into some of the main approach:
   • the training of stage dancers – get a decent result in shortest time possible
   • the now so popular “yoga” approach – sell tango as a life styles and combine it with some philosophy / esoteric / wellness related stuff, selling the enhanced tango
   • the do as I do, no bull***t, no question Milonguero approach – first learn the real thing, than go out and proof yourself, you may think later.
   I don’t mean you should copy those approaches. However, once you find out why they work as a concept and for the customers, it will be a great help to define your own style.
   
   
3. Pretty much related to the point above. It's a good thing to have at least tried to dance Milonguero / Salon / Fantasia and Nuevo. It handy to give a decent answer based on experience, just in case your students ask anything beside your field. Much better than making something up.
   
   
4. You have gathered some experience in an Tango themed (work) field, maybe you have danced for some years at some Milongas, or have worked as a Taxi dancers or assistant teacher, or had some thing to do around some show work.
   
   
5. Spend several weeks in Buenos Aires, and I don't mean holidays. There is no other place where you can learn so much so fast regarding, styles, teaching, history and the real every day life of tango. You simply can’t teach Argentinean tango and charge money for it, once you haven't had the decency to go and check if you are even doing the real thing.
   
   
6. Before starting your classes you want to go out and form your own strategy to teach. How do I teach to whom what and why? A good start is to observe dancers and looking for “mistakes”. Than think beyond simply pointing out errors. How could the dancer perform the action correct? Are there some technical aspects he needs to learn and understand, so he is is able to perform the action? How can I transfer that knowledge? Maybe there is an exercise that will help him. Can I show and explain him the advantage/impact that this correction will give to his dance or the couple? How can I give him the motivation to change and practice?
   
   
7. Find an experienced partner in crime and teach as a couple. Even when only one person is taught, it is a big advantage to this person to stand undisturbed aside and have the opportunity to look for every detail. Only then the person has the opportunity to understand the movement before being plunged into cold water. One teacher alone simply can't give a comprehensive demonstration. Further you will discover important differences between the leader's and the follower's roll and technique. Once you strap 9 cm heels under your feet, you will instantly agree. Even plain walking is dramatically different when using high heeled shoes against men's sneakers.

 

[Angel HI]

My 2 cents......

1 cent - There is a huge differnece between teaching someone something, and showing someone something. At the risk of splitting semantics, we understand that one the first requires a thorough, and sometimes technical, knowledge of "all" parts involved, and the latter simply requires a basic understanding of what you are doing, and, if the "student" is lucky, a basic understanding of what he/she is doing. From his posts, I would probably agree that Mario probably doesn't have the technical skills to teach a partner technically that which she needs to know, but that doesn't mean that he can not show a practice partner what he does, and the walks that she needs to know in order to follow him. Anabien's post is a good one, and Mario said that he would take it to heart.

2 cents - We all use the term teaching very loosely. Everyone says things like, "I taught her what I learned today". Of course, you are not qualified to "teeach" it, if you just learned it yourself, but that's a usual idom of the language. Let's get off of it, and give each other a break, and get these boards back to helping each other better the dance that we enjoy so much.

A PS... My former friend had not danced a step of tango in her life. We were kind of a thing, so I wanted her to learn. I took her to a milonga before she had taken one formal lesson, and yes, horror of horrors, I "taught" her at the milonga (and, I am well qualified to use that word). The point is that she was born to tango. She learned... at lightning speed. I could barely keep her once the others saw her dance. After only 6 months, people were begging her for lessons. She refused b/c she didn't feel qualified, but she was. She is now a very respected and beautiful AT teacher in Chicago. Exceptions are possible.

 

[Lui]

Teaching a female beginner:

If you take money, it might be a good idea to ask about her expectations first, to make sure she gets what she is paining for.

Beside that, in my opinion technique is far more important for a beginning woman than syllabus. Important points to me are:

• The separation of of stepping action and finally weight transfer..
  
• The connection between the partners: the frame of embrace. Accept the lead by freezing your elbow and shoulder joints. Hold tension in the right part of your body to have your feet moved by the lead. How not feel like Frankenstein Monster while doing this.
  
• The introduction into keeping the free leg relaxed as well as all other “unused” body parts, even when holding tension in other areas to accept the lead.
  
• Developing a trust into the lead and the leader (he should be able to earn it btw).
  
• Develop her feeling for her posture and balance.
  
• Giving her a good feeling

All this aspects can be trained by simple walking figures and, after the introduction of pivot, simple ocho combinations.

In my experience it’s better to start in an open embrace, as it is much more forgiving against any kind of mistakes (up to stepping on one’s toes). When a decent understanding of balance, timing and posture is achieved, I will start to teach close embrace, if that’s the goal of the students. When moving close together the first thing about the woman is to check her posture and correct anything that will lead to strain and pain in her back.

Even teaching something as unimportant as Tango (compared to heart surgery) gives you certain responsibilities. If you teach something wrong or just forget to correct it, your students will get used to using that mistake. This might block further learning, causes physical pain and will take double time to un- and relearn the right way.

A teacher, who relies only on his students (and not his mentors and his self evaluation) to point out his mistakes, is not a teacher but a joke.

PS.: I don't think it is wrong to explain anything to anyone. Once you assume a roll that bears some kind of responsibility for the outcome & participators and maybe even charge money for it , it is about time to consider what you are doing.

 

[Lui]

She refused b/c she didn't feel qualified, but she was. She is now a very respected and beautiful AT teacher in Chicago. Exceptions are possible.

Maybe, this is not really an exception? Maybe she is such a fast learner and good teacher because she is very careful and aware about what she is doing?

 

[bordertangoman]

I cannot speak for everyone. I can only tell what makes me think a person is qualified (or not) to teach.

okay can you certify me please?

:notworth:

 

[bordertangoman]

[*]Giving her a good feeling

.

lol; i musy have a filthy mind this morning!

but all Lui's advice is sound;
I would add how

get her to feel your wight changes with her eyes shut; in fact as much as possible get her to feel your movement.

and as to the 'good feeling' I do spend some time getting my follower to feel relaxed..mentally and physically; trust is part of that. A friend of mine was always tense to the point of shaking at the start of a milonga and a i did a rag doll exercise just ask her to go as floppy as possible even her arms. worked wonders.

 

[bordertangoman]

although this thread is danger of asking what makes a good teacher;

i would take a quick look at androgogy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andragogy
and autodidactic; ie take what you think of value from a teacher and ignore the rest;
be prepared to question and challenge: what how and which you are taught, and take responsibility for what you learn; most importantly if you get frustrated with your partner;cool off; that's where learning stops ( or makes a flying leap)

 

[Shandy]

Mario, Please take this is the way it has been written (to help). I would love you to show this post to your new partner!

I have danced for a long time but took up AT about 3 years ago. At the beginning, I brought body awareness to the dance floor and an eagerness to learn AT. For three years I have regularly danced: 4 hours weekly group lessons, monthly themed day workshops and a weekly private lesson. I attended weekly practicas and bi-monthly milongas.

Many of the group classes, I attend have more women then men, it can be 2:1. This means the men have the chance to:
a) progress more quickly- which is excellent
b) sometimes become peacocks possibly thinking they were better than they really are, as they are rarely refused dances by any female dancer.
Never have I met a male lead who thinks they fall into the b) category!

I don't have a regular partner but do have two/three regular practise partners and I am happy to dance with anyone, I also sit out quite a lot and talk to other females. Some thoughts about comments made on dancers with around 2-3 years of experience of AT with little dance experience from other dance styles.

a. Some of the females humour the leads, not willing to truely tell them their faults (in the way they are happy to tell us ours). Mostly because they feel they would NEVER get asked to dance.

b. The lead at this stage is often working on more complicated leads that require subtlety. I feel they often don't understand the importance of the subtety, thereby frustrated when their lead hasn't worked outside of the lesson (where we know its coming!!). Never under-estimate the power of not knowing what you don't know.

c. Rarely have I come across a lead of that level of experience who understands the mechanics of the followers part. (Frustrated comment: "just lead what I tell you"). See Lui above - excellent.

d. Coming from that above, and knowing how you love the traditional/close embrace. An observation: so many people I've danced with think they are dancing close embrase without doing so. In fact I'd go so far to say its rare outiside certain communities. The effect on the male is minimal, the effect on the female if she trys to comply is horrendous.

So many leads want "the look" but can't give the lead. At last I've engaged by brain rather than my core muscles and refuse (I may even start a Facebook group - lol).

e. Positively what I now do is ignore the peacocks but listen and learn from dancers from group a) above and more experienced dancers (believe me that's enough to keep me going!)
I use the first half of my private lesson to talk/dance through any problems brought up at practicas. This has been excellent use of my private and I thoroughly recommend it.

It's delightful for the dancer to know that I've taken what they've said seriously and fantastic for us both if we can see a sign of improvement to work on.

(Reading back I'm not sure whether this is of any help but its taken so long to type, I'm going to post anyway).

 

[Mario7]

Wow, last time I looked, this thread was going downhill fast...now, BOOM! and it blossoms into a giant Chrysanthamum Fireworks, with a ton of gold to mine!
I'd love to treat each post as if it were written personally to me. I will, and.....please, do everyone repy and/or comment on each salient fact that you deem noteworthy!..this thread belongs to everyone.. and wow, all this done on a Saturday night and early Sunday morning?? Did everyone return from their Milonga and immediately fire up the laptop and go to Danceforums??? Are you all addicted or what??:uplaugh:

 

[Mario7]

d. Coming from that above, and knowing how you love the traditional/close embrace. An observation: so many people I've danced with think they are dancing close embrase without doing so. In fact I'd go so far to say its rare outiside certain communities. The effect on the male is minimal, the effect on the female if she trys to comply is horrendous.

I don't know where to go first but this paragraph, one of the last I read, stands out. I posted in another thread about what I called 'cultural timidity' that; when attending a practica after a class that was on close-embrace (I only attendied the practica) I noticed that all the guys were sitting back (bicycling) instead of leaning forward..(most of these guys had been dancing a couple of years and more!)...and I asked the teacher "why don't you teach them close-embrace?" She replied; " I am, they are not doing what I'm teaching."... So, now I read your post and I want to start with your above paragraph..I want to understand it more. Would you please elaborate on the 'effect' on the woman?? thanks

 

[Mario7]

Teaching a female beginner:

If you take money, it might be a good idea to ask about her expectations first, to make sure she gets what she is paining for.

Beside that, in my opinion technique is far more important for a beginning woman than syllabus. Important points to me are:

• The separation of of stepping action and finally weight transfer..
  
• The connection between the partners: the frame of embrace. Accept the lead by freezing your elbow and shoulder joints. Hold tension in the right part of your body to have your feet moved by the lead. How not feel like Frankenstein Monster while doing this.
  
• The introduction into keeping the free leg relaxed as well as all other “unused” body parts, even when holding tension in other areas to accept the lead.
  
• Developing a trust into the lead and the leader (he should be able to earn it btw).
  
• Develop her feeling for her posture and balance.
  
• Giving her a good feeling

All this aspects can be trained by simple walking figures and, after the introduction of pivot, simple ocho combinations.

I'm glad that I'm already thinking on some of these points..I've also sent her to the one woman teacher here for classes in woman's technique...problem is that the teacher lost her dance space and now there is none... I know that I don't know didley about woman's technique but I'm happy to see how much time that I'm now spending on studying it... thanks Lui!

 

[bastet]

I'm glad that I'm already thinking on some of these points..I've also sent her to the one woman teacher here for classes in woman's technique...problem is that the teacher lost her dance space and now there is none... I know that I don't know didley about woman's technique but I'm happy to see how much time that I'm now spending on studying it... thanks Lui!

Perhaps you may have space you could offer her for teaching private lessons? Maybe y'all could team up and that may be a way for you to learn the things you don't currently have? Then perhaps everyone would win.

 

[AndaBien]

Mario, teaching and dancing are different activities. You will be a beginner teacher and you'll make some mistakes. Approach your teaching with the attitude of learning how to do it. I find in teaching tango it's useful to have the idea that you are not an authority, but are assisting your students to find the dance.

I'm going to open up a new thread with my notes for teaching tango. Perhaps we'll get some good discussion about learning to teach tango.

 

[Shandy]

I don't know where to go first but this paragraph, one of the last I read, stands out. I posted in another thread about what I called 'cultural timidity' that; when attending a practica after a class that was on close-embrace (I only attendied the practica) I noticed that all the guys were sitting back (bicycling) instead of leaning forward..(most of these guys had been dancing a couple of years and more!)...and I asked the teacher "why don't you teach them close-embrace?" She replied; " I am, they are not doing what I'm teaching."... So, now I read your post and I want to start with your above paragraph..I want to understand it more. Would you please elaborate on the 'effect' on the woman?? thanks

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and glad the above has given you the desire to find out more. My suggestion would be to use this paragraph to discuss the point raised with your teachers, practise partners and other dancers in your community. I believe this will benefit you much more than any insight I can give you over the internet (with apologies to all forum users who love doing this).

 

[Zoopsia59]

I'll soon be starting another practice partner when her work slows down..she has taken a few classes and has better than average balance to begin with (my opinion). I'm starting to think on how I learned best and what I've learned from teaching my present practice partner... maybe, I can make this series even more effective for her.
Ok, I'm going to do my thinking here and I don't want to make it heavy to burden myself with having to come up with the perfect line of topics to study right now, all at once...I'm going to start to think of it slowly (I have a few weeks) and anyone who wants to chime in is very welcome to do so!:rocker:

My first thought is to go directly to the embrace and dancing in parallel (afterall this is one on one and not a 20 students class)...no 6-8 step basic, just dancing to get the feel of the music and progress of steps as they can be unlimited in number going forward, etc. Side step (open) forward, backwards (for me)...I've already had one class with her and showed the walk and grapevine and asked her to practice them daily to tango music.
Anyway, my first thoughts are parallel walking and then outside parallel if she can handle it...I want the first walks to the cross to come out of the cross footed walk. I know that walking to the cross can be VERY advanced for most dancers (me especially) but I have a hunch that she will be able to do a reasonable facimile in three classes. That's all I've thought of so far.8)

I think you are in danger of teaching her "steps" without any good instruction in teaching her how to follow, and that no matter how well she "gets" it in order to practice with YOU, you will be doing her a great disservice in the long run.

Since you are not a follower, there is probably a great deal you don't know about the fundamental body mechanics that followers need to be employing and that even the way you "teach" her "her part" may be in error.

To be blunt, I think this situation may work out well for YOU, but it is not in her best interests at all unless she maintains a good schedule of instruction with another teacher who has a solid grasp of the technique of following. Then she can bring what she is learning together with what you already know and work together on it with you giving consideration to her input as well as her giving consideration to yours. That's what a "practice partner" is (but I think you DO know that!)