A practical practice routine

[opendoor]

What are names, what are crosses and 8s?

..met these women ..they went to the basic eight..

Wait a minute... these women took a series of classes with a female teacher, but they still haven't ever done crusada? And now its basic 8 and still no crusada? Uh.....

Zoop, is it that important? Or did I get it wrong?

 

[Zoopsia59]

Zoop, is it that important? Or did I get it wrong?

Dave and OD,
See new thread...

 

[Madahlia]

The primary reason I might not have an agenda of moves to practice is that I want to practice following without losing my technique. If I determine what we are working on, I'm not following, I'm anticipating. Even a move that I know I should work on, like holding my back correctly for a volcada, is going to be something I'll probably do correctly when I know its coming. I need to be able to do it when its a surprise. That's when I let my back collapse.

With the exception of colgadas, I know the principles behind pretty much everything that I get led socially. I can do almost all of it properly if I know its coming and we repeat it a few times. If I'm thinking about it and concentrating on it, it happens. Its only when I get onto the social floor that the problems crop up.

My view would be that you have to get the right technique whilst performing a movement when you know it's going to happen to have a chance of getting it right when it's unexpected. It would need to be repeated accurately lots of times under controlled circumstances so that the correct movement was ingrained in the muscle memory. I know that this conflicts with having a clear mind for correct following but i think there's room for both approaches used wisely.

Another reason that I might not have an agenda is that I can work on some things that I need to work on regardless of what move is led. Being strong in my core, maintaining my inner axis from feet to crown, and polishing my extension/reach are all things I can be working on even if the leader is only walking. I can also work on how and when to embellish. In fact, all that is EASIER to work on if the leader is only walking.

Yes, and I didn't mention this in my post - work on these basic features is ongoing and pervades most of my dancing time. However, as it is fairly rare for a novice/intermediate leader to be "only walking" (they're usually desperately trying to fit in some complex move) chances to practise embellishments can be limited, as I need a calm, accurate and consistent leader for this who has some awareness of what i'm trying to do and is happy to keep to basic steps.

.....another common reason that some followers have for not needing to contribute to the agenda (at least with intermediate-advanced follows) is that they have reached a point where they are primarily working on polishing the fundamentals and not on "moves". This work can be done with most any partner doing most any steps.

Yes, but I think there are limits if you are dancing with partners who are struggling with their own leading or if you are working on subtle fundamentals which they have not as yet got much grasp of. For example, one of the things I am working in is keeping my R arm engaged but relaxed. If I ask 95% of my dance partners whether they think I'm doing the right thing with my arm, they'll say yes, fine. But if I ask my dance teacher he'll say it's still too stiff and tense - because he's got a much higher degree of sensitivity to that particular feature.

I also don't go into a private with an agenda. I say "Watch me/ dance with me, and tell me what I should work on or fix". I've almost never had a teacher focus ono a particular "move" as a result. They all get to the heart of a fundamental issue with my overall technique, and it often relates to .... you guessed it.. WALKING.

Yes, I do that, and technique is always what they focus on, rightly. But I don't believe in handing all the power over to the teacher and I expect some time to be devoted to addressing things I want to learn - which is often moves that I can't practise with anyone else. So it usually goes 20 minutes walking, 15 minutes balancing, 15 minutes pivotting and 5 minute of moves!

 

[Zoopsia59]

Um...what sorts of colgadas are you attempting where you're having problems.

The ones where you are counterbalanced away from your partner...
(ie: all of them)

The problem for me is that they are the reverse of everything I practiced about tango all these years. Your body is further away from your partner than your supporting leg. There is no "forward" (ie: towards your partner) pressure or intention. They are simply totally counter-intuitive to me for tango, and I have to adjust everything that I'm trying to maintain. I've noticed that the people around here who do them really well also dance WCS which has a push-pull concept as its basis.

 

[Peaches]

The ones where you are counterbalanced away from your partner...
(ie: all of them)

The problem for me is that they are the reverse of everything I practiced about tango all these years. Your body is further away from your partner than your supporting leg. There is no "forward" (ie: towards your partner) pressure or intention. They are simply totally counter-intuitive to me for tango, and I have to adjust everything that I'm trying to maintain. I've noticed that the people around here who do them really well also dance WCS which has a push-pull concept as its basis.

LOL. Smart-[butt].

Yeah, the first thing I was going to mention is how it feels very similar to a WCS anchor to me.

I actually do feel like there's a forward intention, even in a colgada. Not the same forward pressure, obviously, but it still has that same forward-toward-my-partner feel, just to a (much) lesser degree. The best analogies I've heard, although it took forever for them to make sense, was that it feels like you're about to sit down in a chair. As in, butt out! Well, hips, but still. Upper body stays up and towards partner, hips (and leg) go out.

I realize this is probably nothing you haven't heard before.

 

[Mario7]

LOL. Smart-[butt].
I actually do feel like there's a forward intention, even in a colgada. Not the same forward pressure, obviously, but it still has that same forward-toward-my-partner feel, just to a (much) lesser degree. The best analogies I've heard, although it took forever for them to make sense, was that it feels like you're about to sit down in a chair. As in, butt out! Well, hips, but still. Upper body stays up and towards partner, hips (and leg) go out.

Yeah right, Colgadas...haaaaaha just what we need to be pertinent to this discussion...this is not a Country and Western thread.

 

[Steve Pastor]

I've noticed that the people around here who do them really well also dance WCS which has a push-pull concept as its basis.

Funny you should write this.

I've never had a class in the colgada, but I have experienced what I think someone watching would label as one (well, actually more than one). I did not know the woman I was dancing with, but at times during our pivoting turns there was a very definate feeling of "swinging". (It was one of those, man is she GOOD kind of things.)

This made me think (and I threw this in once here (DF) as an off handed comment) that the colgada is an AT cousin of "swinging" done in many other dances.
Argentina probably had its share of swing dancers in the Golden Age (see JanTango's recent comments, links to interviews with one particular milonguero, etc), and certainly had its share of polka, waltz, schottische, and mazurka dancers in the early days of tango. (Didn't Angel teach swing in Buenos Aires? Maybe HE was responsible for this "nuevo" move! Kidding of course. I think.)

P.S. WCS is not strictly speaking a country western dance. There is evidence, however, that it has been associated with that kind of music since almost the beginning, and quite possibly the beginning. See the original music tread.
P.P.S. Now, polka and schottische in Argentina....

 

[Subliminal]

Sorry to continue the hijack. My teacher has mentioned before that mini-colgadas, where the leader uses slight "swing" (as you call it Steve) to either gather momentum or add to a rotational movement are actually part of salon tradition. Not really labeled a colgada as such though.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Yeah right, Colgadas...haaaaaha just what we need to be pertinent to this discussion...this is not a Country and Western thread.

Yeah.. sorry for the temporary hijack...

It was sorta relevant... due to the fact that its the one thing that I would actually specifically plan to practice with a partner (and that IS the thread subject)

So there...
:kissme: