Active Following

[bordertangoman]

In my view, followers need, first of all, before everything else (interpretation, musicality, adornments etc.) to learn to follow.

Similarly, I think leaders need first of all, before everything else (moves, musicality, adornments etc.) to learn to lead.

:headwall: its just bleedin hobvious and I quite agree.

as a female friend of mine put it; minimal cognitive interference

oh and the same goes for surrendering
No surrender monkeys till you can follow.

 

[Zoopsia59]

So...adornos?

To me, by definition, adornos happen between led steps and do not interfere with the lead... that's what makes them tricky to execute. If an adorno or embellishment interferes with the lead, its no longer an adornment.

At least that's how I was taught to approach them.

 

[Zoopsia59]

Another reason women around here learn to lead, is that there aren't enough leaders to go around in classes, practicas, and most certainly milongas. The women can spend all night sitting and not dancing (or not participating in a class they paid for) or they can dance with each other... which requires that one of the women in the couple leads...

 

[Dave Bailey]

:headwall: its just bleedin hobvious and I quite agree.

Obvious, yes, but amazing how many people - most, I'd say - don't learn that way.

 

[AndaBien]

To me, by definition, adornos happen between led steps and do not interfere with the lead... that's what makes them tricky to execute. If an adorno or embellishment interferes with the lead, its no longer an adornment.

At least that's how I was taught to approach them.

My first teacher, a woman from Argentina, gave a class on embellishments and explained that there are three categories;

• Where the embellishment is unknown to the leader
• Where the embellishment is known to the leader, and he can respond to it
• Where the embellishment actually alters the dance

She was explicit that altering the dance should be done only in the right place and with the right partner. Also, very rarely. She suggested that some leaders would not appreciate it at all.

 

[Zoopsia59]

My first teacher, a woman from Argentina, gave a class on embellishments and explained that there are three categories;

• Where the embellishment is unknown to the leader
• Where the embellishment is known to the leader, and he can respond to it
• Where the embellishment actually alters the dance

She was explicit that altering the dance should be done only in the right place and with the right partner. Also, very rarely. She suggested that some leaders would not appreciate it at all.

I've never considered #3 to be an "embellishment", but that's probably a semantics quibble.

IMO, one should master #1 before attempting 2 or 3. Too often a follower ends up with #2 unintentionally and the leader has no choice iof whether or not to respond, which basically makes it #3.

 

[bordertangoman]

My first teacher, a woman from Argentina, gave a class on embellishments and explained that there are three categories;

• Where the embellishment is unknown to the leader
• Where the embellishment is known to the leader, and he can respond to it
• Where the embellishment actually alters the dance

She was explicit that altering the dance should be done only in the right place and with the right partner. Also, very rarely. She suggested that some leaders would not appreciate it at all.

this is the Rumsfeld approach!

 

[AndaBien]

this is the Rumsfeld approach!

Do you mean women should embellish (pun not intended, but I'll take it), "east, west, south and north somewhat"?

 

[Dave Bailey]

Do you mean women should embellish (pun not intended, but I'll take it), "east, west, south and north somewhat"?

I assume he's referring to the "known knowns" saying, but I'm a novice in BTM-ology...

 

[Dave Bailey]

My first teacher, a woman from Argentina, gave a class on embellishments and explained that there are three categories;

• Where the embellishment is unknown to the leader

That's fine.

• Where the embellishment is known to the leader, and he can respond to it

That's not an embellishment, it's interpretation or "playing".

• Where the embellishment actually alters the dance

That's definitely not an embellishment, it's hijacking.

She was explicit that altering the dance should be done only in the right place and with the right partner. Also, very rarely. She suggested that some leaders would not appreciate it at all.

Frankly, it's better not to teach it at all, to my mind.

 

[opendoor]

Re: active fouling

football has hogged me, alway read active fouling....

 

[jantango]

BTW I couldnt care less about how they dance in BsAs. If they do nothing more than follow then they're obviously not as sophisticated as the followers in Europe.

Tango in BsAs is different than what is done in Europe. Those with similar attitudes will never know the feeling of tango.

West coast swing -- I taught it for several years in Chicago. It is for those who want freedom in a partner dance. The man still leads, but they are separated while dancing.

Reasons to embellish tango -- Performing on stage. I see no reason to use any in the milonga.

Learning to lead -- women learn how by dancing with the milongueros in BsAs. You feel what they do.

 

[dchester]

That's fine.
That's not an embellishment, it's interpretation or "playing".
That's definitely not an embellishment, it's hijacking.

Frankly, it's better not to teach it at all, to my mind.

You're not such a bad guy after all.

 

[dchester]

BTW I couldnt care less about how they dance in BsAs. If they do nothing more than follow then they're obviously not as sophisticated as the followers in Europe.

The best way I can explain it, is it's a different dimension (or possibly a different emotion) to the dance. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I don't think more sophisticated as you described, (or to me, more complicated) is always a good thing. It's (sort of), more "fun" vs more "serene".

For me, the mood (or emotion) of the song dictates what style I try to go towards, (of course the follower's comfort level and skillset plays into it as well). From my perspective, some people appear to (more or less) dance the same way to every song. With the right song (and follower), what Jan advocates is very satisfying. However for me, it's not right for every song, nor is it right for every follower.

 

[Captain Jep]

Yes good point, DC. I was thinking about that after making my earlier post.

With a nice melodic piece I am happy to focus on the serenity. The "entrega". With a more staccato piece (or with a milonga) I look for a more playful attitude to the dance. Then "active following" comes into its own.

I could go on but I suspect we are getting away from the OP. Wasnt the question more about what we mean by the term "active following" than whether or not we agree with it?