Adjusting the embrace

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
If you dance with someone for the first time and you feel uncomfortable with the way they hold you, is it okay for you to adjust the embrace to your own comfort level, or do you say nothing and decline to dance with that person again?

More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder, or would that be considered rude or inappropriate?
 
More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder, or would that be considered rude or inappropriate?

This one can actually cause quite a bit of discomfort. I've demonstrated that to a few women, and I sure hope they never do it to someone again. That said, I'll usually wait a bit to see if it is a temporary thing. How long I wait, and how a approach making the partner aware of what they are doing depends on how much discomfort they are causing me.

But, yeah, in my play book, you have every right to tell them. How you handle it is where the "politeness" comes in.
 
I usually try subtle first. Shift around until things are comfortable, move your arm, shrug your shoulder, see if she gets it. Then if there's still a problem, mention it. If she's open minded, she'd probably want to know. If she's close minded and is insulted, well, you weren't planning on dancing with her again anyway, eh? :P
 
More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder, or would that be considered rude or inappropriate?

I don't think manually moving her arm is a good solution. That would seem rather rude to me.

Wouldn't she have to reposition her hand and arm if you simply created more distance between you by going to OE?

You could also try removing your R arm completely (a la Tete) and see what she does in response. Tete would not just remove his arm, he would allow it to drift outward (to show the world that he didn't need to use it to lead). Maybe attempting to do something like that which requires freedom of the arm would get across to her that you need more freedom of movement, especially if you lifted your arm.

I used to dance occasionally with someone who would grip my right hand too tight. I never said anything; I would just flex may hand and fingers which forced him to relax his grip. He wasn't doing it because he thought it was correct.. he was doing it because he was unaware of how much tension he had in his hand.

Believe it or not, I was "corrected" by a leader who wanted me to exert MORE pressure on his R arm. Apparently some leaders like having their R arm pinned by the follower. My point is that leaders all seem to like different things. One leader I know who dances milonguero CE hates having the follower's arm around his neck (which would be a typical milonguero type embrace).. he wants it more out on the edge of his shoulder. Other milonguero leaders I've danced with don't want it on the outside of their shoulder, they want it closer to their neck where any downward pressure isn't felt in their arm as much.

If it's a practica, I'd suggest a conversation about it in a non-blaming, non-critical way. (ie: "I'm not used to blah, blah, blah... I usually use blah, blah embracing method. Could we give that a try?") She may be doing it deliberately because someone else TOLD her to. If it's a milonga, and that's the only thing about dancing with her that really bothers you, I'd suggest either trying to dance at a practica with her or trying to have a casual conversation on the sidelines when you aren't dancing.

It's really difficult for followers to know how various leaders want the follower's left arm. You may not be aware of how much variation there is in preference, to the point of totally contradictory preferences between leaders who otherwise are dancing similar styles. Please give this follower the benefit of the doubt and don't just ditch her as a potential partner because of this. Most likely, she'd rather adjust to you if she knew, than wonder forever why you don't dance with her but you dance with X,Y,and Z.

Personally, I've been experimenting with finding a left arm method that will work with any leader. So far, it's not going very well. :???: No matter what I do, SOMEONE will grouse.
 
If she's open minded, she'd probably want to know. If she's close minded and is insulted, well, you weren't planning on dancing with her again anyway, eh? :P

Even if she's open minded and wants to know, whether or not she feels insulted can be completely based on how the information is relayed to her. It's important to always treat these things as your own preferences, not a matter of the other person being wrong or needing a "correction".
 
..is it okay for you to adjust the embrace to your own comfort level, or do you say nothing and decline to dance with that person again?

Hi Andabien, I only gained positive experiences when I addressed the things as they are right after the first dance. No woman ever was huffy, offended, nor downcasted, when I asked her to put the arm a bit higher, lower, or hold it with a different angle or distance. I have a shoulder-neck syndrome and a few inches apart from my comfort position already may cause some pain for me. And, quite the opposite, every woman I asked for an arm correction was quite thankful, unkown as well known dancers, beginners and advanced equally. Only if the follower is to short for you, then it may cause some effort for her to keep the arm apart for a longer period.


..move her arm up to the top of my shoulder ..?

By the way, there is a style question in it, too. The on-top-shoulder-neck position is milonguero-like. The round-the-shoulder hold is Salón style. But, even in Salón style her arm may not press onto your upper arm. There should be some space inbetween her forearm and your deltoid. It is shown perfectly in the last Pablo and Noelia vid (VU-style) posted by Mladenac http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=38939 yesterday in the subforum.


.OD
 
More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder, or would that be considered rude or inappropriate?
I would not consider it rude but I would feel a bit dispirited (unreasonable, I know!)

I would probably resort to a little white lie and say something like "Could you do me a favour please? I know it might be inconvenient for you but I have an old shoulder injury so could you move your arm a little bit?" Something like this.
 
If you're being hurt by your partner, you should always have the right to change things so that you don't get hurt any more.

If it's a "style" thing, though, I don't think it's appropriate to give style tips at a milonga.
 
If you dance with someone for the first time and you feel uncomfortable with the way they hold you, is it okay for you to adjust the embrace to your own comfort level, or do you say nothing and decline to dance with that person again?

More specifically, if I dance with a woman who binds my R arm to my side with her L arm, would it be okay for me to move her arm up to the top of my shoulder, or would that be considered rude or inappropriate?
Occasionally, either I or my follower, may try to adjust the embrace before we start moving to the first dance. Sometimes there are opportunities to change the embrace during the dance, like going into or coming out of turns.

Also, saying you have a pain in my back, arm, etc., seems to work better than saying she is causing the pain. Just remember that the last person she danced with might have really liked her embrace, and she likely has no way of knowing what you like in an embrace.

:wink:
 
I would definitely own the problem myself, saying that it was merely my personal preference and not at all her fault. I'm aware that leaders have all sorts of personal preferences that differ from my own.

There is a woman here who I would like to dance with, but she always places her hand low on her partners back, around his bicep, and I've never seen her dance any other way. That seems to be her personal preference, and it doesn't conform with mine.
 
Thanks to Zoopsia and DChester for emphasising that there is such a variation in the preferences of individual leaders that no follower can be expected to mind-read them all and they may contradict each other. So it is fine and not rude to politely suggest modifications to the embrace but not fine and rude to do it with a supercilious and critical air.
 
Thanks to Zoopsia and DChester for emphasising that there is such a variation in the preferences of individual leaders that no follower can be expected to mind-read them all and they may contradict each other. So it is fine and not rude to politely suggest modifications to the embrace but not fine and rude to do it with a supercilious and critical air.
For whatever reason, I tend to hear a lot of polar opposite opinions on my embrace from followers. Some really like my embrace (and comment on it), and others complain (sometimes strongly) that it is too constricting. While I try to make accommodations for different people, you can't please everyone.
 
For whatever reason, I tend to hear a lot of polar opposite opinions on my embrace from followers. Some really like my embrace (and comment on it), and others complain (sometimes strongly) that it is too constricting. While I try to make accommodations for different people, you can't please everyone.

I only dance apilado, and with partners who I know, or think, are agreeable to that. Even so, I know there are differences in what my partners like. My embrace tends to be quite firm. Some of my favorite partners have asked me to hold them more loosely, and I was happy to do that. Other favorite partners have no problem at all with the way I hold them.
 
two things I was told
1. Comfort
2. Presence - so the arm does not become a clamp, nor dead..

to which I would add
3. keep your fingers closed. no spider or crab hands ( otherwise the goodness slips out between your fingers)
 

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