Adjusting the embrace

Zoopsia59 said:
Believe it or not, I was "corrected" by a leader who wanted me to exert MORE pressure on his R arm...One leader I know who dances milonguero CE hates having the follower's arm around his neck .... Other milonguero leaders I've danced with don't want it on the outside of their shoulder,
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I find followers are often given to much misleading information at a milonga. My understanding is that passing an opinion at a milonga is not considered good etiquette, so it does not take a lot to figure the reason for this.

If it's a practica, I'd suggest a conversation about it in a non-blaming, non-critical way.
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Especially if it is supervised because I assume there may be two conflicting opinions so this may be helpful.
 
dchester said:
For whatever reason, I tend to hear a lot of polar opposite opinions on my embrace from followers. Some really like my embrace (and comment on it), and others complain (sometimes strongly) that it is too constricting. While I try to make accommodations for different people, you can't please everyone.
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I have the same experience. Generally if I then loosen my embrace so that I am not touching these followers at all with my right arm they are then happy.

But I do wonder why this exists.
 
Thinking about it I think I find a limp, nerveless, tentative embrace far more difficult as a follower than an over-firm one. Probably because there's no sensation of a lead coming from the right arm so I have to do a lot more guessing and there will be a lot more unclear moments. I also feel that I might just slip out of the embrace so mental and physical effort is expended on staying in place. I rarely ask people to make their embrace firmer because it is usually people who are trying to master some other feature of the dance (multiple ganchos, say) who do it,and I figure I'd be wasting my breath.

Having said that, I don't think I dance with many people who have an overly strong embrace (Once danced, forever avoided?) but I think my tendency might be to tense up in order to resist it. It is noticeable that a lot of tension in the arms, shoulder or hands tends to get mirrored back. I often ask for or use non-verbal cues to signal a relaxation of the hands and it works. Probably not with a stranger in a milonga, though.
 
I'm dancing close embrace and sometimes I also run into followers who are squeezing the life out my right hand with their left. I had the superfluous impression that this is more frequent with followers who primarily dance open embrace; I thought they might expect the lead coming from/correlated with pressure on the left shoulder blade, and they try to recreate this pressure by holding my arm as a handpurse.

My problem is that in order to adjust my embrace to make it more comfortable I would need to pull my arm out a bit; so while in my normal embrace my upper arm meets the left side of their torso now either the crook of my arm or my lower arm meets their left/back side in an angle. But this means that my wrist needs to bend relative to my lower arm in order to keep my hand on their back. But for some reason whenever that happens I end the tanda with excruciating pain in my wrists; I'm just unable to hold my hand with bent wrist for an entire tanda. (Any ideas why?) I'd rather choose to go with a squeezed right arm than with a wrist in pain for the entire night.
 
Madahlia said:
Thinking about it I think I find a limp, nerveless, tentative embrace far more difficult as a follower than an over-firm one. Probably because there's no sensation of a lead coming from the right arm so I have to do a lot more guessing and there will be a lot more unclear moments. I also feel that I might just slip out of the embrace so mental and physical effort is expended on staying in place. I rarely ask people to make their embrace firmer because it is usually people who are trying to master some other feature of the dance (multiple ganchos, say) who do it,and I figure I'd be wasting my breath.

Having said that, I don't think I dance with many people who have an overly strong embrace (Once danced, forever avoided?) but I think my tendency might be to tense up in order to resist it. It is noticeable that a lot of tension in the arms, shoulder or hands tends to get mirrored back. I often ask for or use non-verbal cues to signal a relaxation of the hands and it works. Probably not with a stranger in a milonga, though.
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One of my favorite partners is quite comfortable in my firm embrace, and she uses her R arm very little. She also dances with a friend who dances apilado, but in that situation she presses a lot with her R arm on his L arm. In discussing this with her I found out that my friend does not hold her as firmly, so she feels less secure and finds it necessary to press on his L arm.
 
IMHO, if one is at a practica... suggest/discuss away. If at a milonga, do not suggest or discuss anything unless at the table and in a situation that might suggests that it is ok. You are there to dance with that lady, and not to retrain her, make her conform to you, or whatever. No 2 persons are exactly alike. So be it.

Having said that, we must also know, that AT is a living dance. It is NOT, and I don't care who says that it is, a dance of rule and regulation. The embrace will live and breathe as the dance lives and breathes. It will change as often as the movements change. It is not placed, held, and unfeeling as a BR topline might be (though it shouldn't be so in BR either). The embrace is exactly that... an embrace, a hug, a communication to the partner that will move and feel, just as a hug does. As Anda posted, often the embrace simply changes according to with whom it is shared.

I think that rather than asking someone to change, one should simply enjoy the moment. It is not going to be so profound as to ruin the experience... unless one is shallow enough to let that happen.
 
FWIW, I really don't mind it if a follower tells me what her preference is, as long as she's pleasant about it (i.e. politely saying what she likes, rather than complaining about what I'm doing wrong).
 
ant said:
I find followers are often given to much misleading information at a milonga. My understanding is that passing an opinion at a milonga is not considered good etiquette, so it does not take a lot to figure the reason for this.
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The "correction" I was given by the guy who wanted more contact through the arm came at a Practica, not a milonga. I wouldn't have been annoyed if he had just expressed less as a correction and more as a preference.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
The "correction" I was given by the guy who wanted more contact through the arm came at a Practica, not a milonga. I wouldn't have been annoyed if he had just expressed less as a correction and more as a preference.
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Both good points.
 
Interesting discussions going on here about both the effects of the followers and the leaders embrace.

As a follower, I'm happy using both 'styles' of embrace: Over the shoulder, around the neck and alternatively, across the arm/deltoids, connecting with the man's middle back. If I'm dancing with somebody I know and they have a strong opinion, I'm happy to adopt their preferred style, other than that, I hope I choose the most appropriate to enhance the connection and have a great dance.

Technically, I prefer my arm to lay around my leads arm (and would choose this method with an unknown partner, for the first dance at least).
My reasons are two-fold
1) its more comfortable to have my shoulders at an even-level and allows me to maintain my own balance/axis easier.
2) My wrist, the heel of my palm and tips of my fingers connected to my partners back - at the height of his chest - gives me a brilliant connection, particularly with partners who truly use their centre (this was taught to me as the 'missing' connection point by one teacher!).

However, this teacher would not allow ANY gripping or holding-on with either arm - each connection point had to be completely flexible AT ALL TIMES. Once you were able to dance freely on your own axis and be balanced, both on your own and with your partner, this teacher encouraged a firm embrace but definitely not until then!!!
 
Shandy said:
However, this teacher would not allow ANY gripping or holding-on with either arm - each connection point had to be completely flexible AT ALL TIMES. Once you were able to dance freely on your own axis and be balanced, both on your own and with your partner, this teacher encouraged a firm embrace but definitely not until then!!!
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that teacher sounds like me.. .. I often tweak peoples embraces, and posture and...everything else


ever since there was this nice picture of me dancing at a tango ball, except my follower had her left hand on my silk shirt hanging on like a tree frog...
 
bordertangoman said:
that teacher sounds like me.. .. I often tweak peoples embraces, and posture and...everything else


ever since there was this nice picture of me dancing at a tango ball, except my follower had her left hand on my silk shirt hanging on like a tree frog...
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there's always the robocop approach ; "you have 30 seconds to adjust your embrace"
 
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