All About Son

[Twilight_Elena]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts.
I am familiar with the history of salsa and how son is practically the root of it all. I like son because it's that fine blend of african heritage with hispanic/cuban elements.
Dancing salsa on2... never tried it, as I always lose the tempo with new-age super fast salsas (I've been doing on1 colombian salsa, so I haven't been taught to dance on2) but I'll try it again with a son. The clave... I can hear behind all the other instruments and the vocals, but I can't see how one can possibly dance to it.
Does anyone know of a music sample of a clave-only measurement, with no other instruments, so that I can listen to it more clearly?

Twilight Elena

 

[MacMoto]

I have done a couple of son workshops in Edinburgh. Son is danced "contratiempo", i.e., on the off-beat. So you could say it's danced on2, but the timing is different from salsa/mambo on2, and the feel of the dance is also very different. The basic step is quick-quick-slow on the 2-3-4. You feel that the 4 and the 8 (slow side step with a flowing, gliding feel) are strongly emphasised, and in one of the workshops the teacher advised us son newbies to start dancing on the 8 rather than the 2, which makes it easier to get on to the rhythm pattern. It would be much easier to show the step than explain in words, but I don't know any video clip. I love the dance and would like to take more classes.

The clave... I can hear behind all the other instruments and the vocals, but I can't see how one can possibly dance to it.
Does anyone know of a music sample of a clave-only measurement, with no other instruments, so that I can listen to it more clearly?

I've always felt that "dancing on the clave" meaning on2 is a bit of a misnomer since you are not stepping on every clave beat when dancing on2.

On the music question, one of the "teacher compilation" CDs I have contains a track titled "Clave y Conga", which is mostly just the clave and conga with different percussions plus a bit of piano joining in -- good for understanding salsa rhythms (it's a good idea to learn how the clave and conga work together, not just the clave, especially if you want to dance on2). I don't know where to get this track though.

A good song for listening to the clave beat (often used for teaching) is Ray Baretto's "Acid".

 

[africana]

wow how confusing all this
on2
not on2
on clave
not on clave
contratiempo
ay! all I can say is I learned son in cuba (from the grupo folklorico nacional), and I recorded a couple of the lessons and performances on tape, becuse it was hard to remember how to dance it without a reference. Fast-forward 4 months later when I started learnng on2, and also on clave...suffice it to say that when I went back to watch those videos it was a piece of cake, easy shmeasy

So definitely knowing how to move on2 or dance on clave helps. i'll try to find a video demonstrating it

 

[africana]

OK I just rewatched the performance video, some observations
- I hear the clave well: ta-ta--pause--ta-ta-ta=> 2/3 clave (?)
- they dance in it just like in on2 i.e. stepping on 2-3-4
- they are using a lot more circular basics rather than back-and-forth as in mambo/on2 and even casino. So this might feel strange at first, and actually makes it not look at all like on2.
-They also do a lot of cumbia steps with lots of slow turns/rotations as a couple
- not too many turn patterning, so the overall impression is elegance and simplicity (more connectedness) but still playful
- i've seen the el turneo (??) move done a lot where the guy squats down slowly and lets the lady rotate him, slowly (looks very cool 8) I've tried it a few times)

this is on VHS maybe I can find sw to convert it

 

[Guarachero]

Son

An other feature I enjoy of Son is the easy flow the air instruments give you to make turns. I love to bend my legs and, standing on one foot, have the girl slowly turn me (Torniquete).

Son looks best when the girl stands out and the man knows how to do the motions.

Guarachero

 

[aragonh]

Does anyone know of a music sample of a clave-only measurement, with no other instruments, so that I can listen to it more clearly?

Twilight Elena

The two songs I mentioned earlier have good stong clave beats
Clave Mambo (throughtout the whole song)

La Salsa Nunca se acaba (mostly during the beginnig)

 

[aragonh]

OK I just rewatched the performance video, some observations
- I hear the clave well: ta-ta--pause--ta-ta-ta=> 2/3 clave (?)
- they dance in it just like in on2 i.e. stepping on 2-3-4
- they are using a lot more circular basics rather than back-and-forth as in mambo/on2 and even casino. So this might feel strange at first, and actually makes it not look at all like on2.
-They also do a lot of cumbia steps with lots of slow turns/rotations as a couple
- not too many turn patterning, so the overall impression is elegance and simplicity (more connectedness) but still playful
- i've seen the el turneo (??) move done a lot where the guy squats down slowly and lets the lady rotate him, slowly (looks very cool 8) I've tried it a few times)

this is on VHS maybe I can find sw to convert it

From reading your description, I would say they are not dancin on clave, but on2.

Dancin on clave is steppin on the beats. So u would step on 1, 2.5, 4, 6,7.

I dance to the clave at times when Im doin my shines. I rarely dance it w/ my partner b/c not many people can translate it to movement.

 

[Guarachero]

clave

That's pretty good Aragonh :idea:

Guarachero

 

[Twilight_Elena]

I suppose a good lead can be helpful when trying to find the on2 in son. Which leads me to another question: what are the steps in son?

Twilight Elena

 

[africana]

IWhich leads me to another question: what are the steps in son?
Twilight Elena

ok i'll try this writing-counting-description thing:
in the 2/3 clave, step on 2-3-4 and 6-7-8
so that 3 alternating steps, pause and another 3 alternating steps in each 8-count

Ok found a site with a promotional clip for a dvd. it starts out with casino, but has 3 seconds :? of son at the end. and it's not quite the same style as "Chan Chan" (in fact it's similar to typical salsa/mambo) but it might help https://www.boogalu.com/video/catalog/mueve-la-cintura

articles all about son

Home - Mambo City Salsa

Mambo City Salsa, London's home of Salsa, Bachata and Afrolatin Dance. Weekly classes, monthly parties and Afrolatin dance festivals in the heart of the city.

www.salsadance.co.uk

http://www.justsalsa.com/salsa/music/son/

sample music
http://www.mamborama.com/cuba_music.html

 

[Guarachero]

Does anyone know of a music sample of a clave-only measurement, with no other instruments, so that I can listen to it more clearly?

Twilight Elena

The two songs I mentioned earlier have good stong clave beats
Clave Mambo (throughtout the whole song)

La Salsa Nunca se acaba (mostly during the beginnig)

Aragonh:

"Ave María morena" by the old Muñequitos has a tasty long clave entrance -not the whole song - but the clave is the commanding throughout. They have few like that.

Other than that, I never heard just claves. Remember that even when claves could command, they still need the rest of the background for its own support. Otherwise the ups and downs of its tempo and minims will not reach many dancers.

Guarachero

 

[aragonh]

Other than that, I never heard just claves. Remember that even when claves could command, they still need the rest of the background for its own support. Otherwise the ups and downs of its tempo and minims will not reach many dancers.

Guarachero

But if people just want to dance to clave, then all they need to do is listen to the the beats and dance to that.

As for pure claves songs, there are some practice tracks out there that have just the clave and el tumbao playing. Eddie Torres has a practice CD like that

 

[Sabor]

my humble opinion.. some dances just have to be danced so u know about them.. they can't be written .. son revolves around the clave or other instruments if u can hear it .. i dont percieve it as 123 567 or 234 678 but as hitting the instrumentals and playing with it naturally .. its all feeling.. u'll just have to dance it with someone who's done it and THEN tie it to text descriptions if it helps.

 

[Guarachero]

Clave

Aragoh:

That's fantastic! But I've never heard just claves. And you're right, you can dance to the claves if you decide to do just what they command.

Guarachero

 

[jhb]

The timeline you give looks pretty complete, but a bit out of order.

The Son Montuno comes after the son... Guantanamera is more a guajira... A Son Montuno is basically a son with more a more "modern" rhythm and percussion section. The rhythms of the Son Montuno and of Salsa are essentially identical. The music of Arsenio Rodríguez probably best exemplifies the Son Montuno.

Échale Salsita would fit in between 4 and 5 (ie, after the birth of the Son, but before the Son Montuno). It came out in 1932. The name means "throw a little sauce on it", ie, spice it up.

Tito Puente and Benny Moré basicaly coincide. Late 40s and through the 50s, the both of them were at their prime.

Let's get them in orther of apparition:

1. African ceremonial dances (religious and sectal),
2. Españoles' contributions (String instruments and chants),
3. Rumba (Santería, Palo Monte, Abakuá, Españoles' name for
unrestricted fun),
4. Son Montuno (Spanish contribution, Ramón Veloz, Jeseíto Fernández
with his Guantanamera),
5. Son (Matamoros (with Compay Segundo and his cousin), Arsenio
Rodríguez, Ignacio Piñeiro),
6. Casino (Conjunto Casino, Casino de la Alegría, Casineros,
Guaracheros de Regla),
7. Guarachas (Descargas),
8. Mambo (Pérez Prado),
9. ChachaChá (Jorrín with his "La Engañadora" in Prado at
Neptuno, Havana),
10.Modification of Son (Beny Moré),
11.Return of Casino (Sonora Matancera with Celia Cruz (called Guarachera de Cuba), Pío Leyva, Pacho Alonso),
12.Ignacio Piñeiro again with "Echale salsita" (the African of butifarras in
Central Road, Matanzas, Cuba),
13."Bigote" Escalona (CMQ Radio DJ) "Salsa!,"
14.Tito Puentes (New York: "This is Salsa, Señores!").

That's it. I just spelled my guts :banana:

¡Ay caray!

Guarachero