Allright then, ganchos....

opendoor said:
never put in a gancho, always the women do....

(by the way, ganchos and picas do not belong to my repertoir, perhaps also a question of style?)
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me neither ... maybe it's just that we're so smooooothhhh ...;)

ps if a woman puts in a gancho, make her do a second one - hehe
 
opendoor said:
never put in a gancho, always the women do....
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How can a woman "put in" a gancho? If the leader's leg isn't there, it isn't there. If it's there in the way of her movement, she ganchos.

Never mind, I know the answer...

I guess some of you are dancing with followers who don't understand the mechanics of ganchos and are seeking out your leg to hook it. I can understand how that happens. There are quite a few leaders who don't understand the mechanics either and feel they have "led" a gancho while expecting the follower to find his leg and get hers around it.

So sometimes followers get accustomed to doing the whole thing without any "help" (ie: lead) If they knew what's supposed to make the gancho happen, they'd just stand there (like I do) when the gancho is expected but not led.

(then as a result, they wouldn't be putting them in when you DON"T lead them)
 
.. but we should admit, that there are some kind of ganchos which are led more than others, as f.i. the coiled (?better twisted?) ones as shown at 0:15 . It looks choreographed, but it is 100% leadable. (By the way, it´s still one of my favorite neo songs: Pedro Aznar´s "Lo Hermoso Que Fue". PM me if you want a copy.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVxhoZkaMTA
 
opendoor said:
.. but we should admit, that there are some kind of ganchos which are led more than othershttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVxhoZkaMTA
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I can't think of any that AREN'T led. A gancho is a natural result of movement initiated by the leader. I was told as a follower: You don't DO a gancho... a gancho HAPPENS.

The problem is that many followers try to "DO" ganchos instead of just letting them happen.

I also make a distinction between a "hook" and a "wrap", although the wrap typically stems from a leader initiated movement as well.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
I can't think of any that AREN'T led. A gancho is a natural result of movement initiated by the leader. I was told as a follower: You don't DO a gancho... a gancho HAPPENS.

The problem is that many followers try to "DO" ganchos instead of just letting them happen.

I also make a distinction between a "hook" and a "wrap", although the wrap typically stems from a leader initiated movement as well.
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I want to dance with you, Zoops....
 
Zoopsia59 said:
opendoor said:
.. we should admit, that there are some kinds of ganchos which are led more than others, as f.i. .... 0:15 - 0:17

youtube.com/watch?v=PVxhoZkaMTA
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..The problem is that many followers try to "DO" ganchos instead of just letting them happen...
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Hi Zoopsia, you are right concerning the ordinary ganchos. I was talking about these supercoiled ones. They work differently. Watch the example. Perhaps you would not call this neo stuff a gancho at all ? :p
 
opendoor said:
Hi Zoopsia, you are right concerning the ordinary ganchos. I was talking about these supercoiled ones. They work differently. Watch the example. Perhaps you would not call this a gancho at all ? :p
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As someone who only (occasionally) does the "leg wrap" style ganchos, how many different types are there (or maybe how are they grouped or classified)?

I guess I just haven't studied them enough to know what the various varieties are.
 
no idea, but in a trice:

moved ones
static ones

to the front
backwards

left leg
right one

colgadized
not colgadized

leg flying
leg accompanied

inside inside thighs
inside outside
outside inside
outside outside
 
opendoor said:
Hi Zoopsia, you are right concerning the ordinary ganchos. I was talking about these supercoiled ones. They work differently. Watch the example. Perhaps you would not call this neo stuff a gancho at all ? :p
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What's with the sticking out of tongue, you brat?

Seriously though...

I don't know that I would call the one at :15 and the other one slightly later that was similar, "ganchos". There's not much about them that "hooks" as an interruption of her movement. But then I don't know what the actual definition of "gancho" is.

What he leads is the downward sinking into her standing knee. As a stylistic thing, she raises her free foot. I guess there's nothing in his lead that causes her to raise her free leg; she could just as easily straighten it behind her on the floor. So you could say that the raised leg that sorta ganchos is her embellishment.

Her effort is going into raising the leg, whereas with a traditional gancho, it takes effort to NOT raise the leg and allow it to hook, because it is relaxed and it's motion is interrupted. It is simply a step and something gets in the way.

It appears to me that this is almost the opposite: instead of leading her to step backward and interrupting the step, he sends her forward (and down) and she raises her free leg behind her. As he twists, it contacts his bent leg and hooks. But the contact is not what causes the raising of her leg.

I don't really care one way or another whether people want to call these more nuevo-y moves ganchos. I'm not sure what else you WOULD call them. The question is (and I don't have the answer, because I haven't been led in this specific move) what changes if the follower extends her leg rather than lift it? Does anything in his lead physically cause the leg to come up, or is it more like a learned response based on style rather than an inevitable one based on physics?

It seems to me that many of the more nuevo'y moves use raising a leg to counterbalance the off-axis movement. It's what some followers do when they feel they are off-balance to regain their balance (ie: counterbalance by letting something else go the other way) except in this style it is intended as part of the dance rather than being a rescue attempt by a falling follower.
 
Zoopsia59 said:
What he leads is the downward sinking into her standing knee. As a stylistic thing, she raises her free foot. I guess there's nothing in his lead that causes her to raise her free leg; she could just as easily straighten it behind her on the floor. So you could say that the raised leg that sorta ganchos is her embellishment.

. . .

I don't really care one way or another whether people want to call these more nuevo-y moves ganchos. I'm not sure what else you WOULD call them. The question is (and I don't have the answer, because I haven't been led in this specific move) what changes if the follower extends her leg rather than lift it? Does anything in his lead physically cause the leg to come up, or is it more like a learned response based on style rather than an inevitable one based on physics?
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I can't tell if he's leading that or not, but some people teach that the follower's free foot is lead by the leaders left hand against the follower's right hand. I saw some evidence of the leader using that technique on the pasada right before the gancho (@ 0:13), but he turns when doing the gancho, so I can't see if he's still leading her free foot movement, or if it's a follower embellishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVxhoZkaMTA
 
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