Just remembered that 'formal' mixer: the Paul Jones. I think we used to have a tanda of 3.
At the end of the pandemic, maybe a new start?
- Thread starter itwillhappen
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pianistamediano
Forum Master
I'm intrigued by the dance cards - but only as a way to book tandas, as it were, not to just collect partners for a chance to win a middling prize that is the equivalent of company scrip at this festival. Feels slimy, and breeds suspicion that your partner might only be dancing with you in order to fill out that card, instead of actually wanting to dance with you as a person.
At the very least, it does not mandate your acceptance of an invitation! 2 songs per tanda sounds very rushed honestly, probably not my thing.
At the very least, it does not mandate your acceptance of an invitation! 2 songs per tanda sounds very rushed honestly, probably not my thing.
Don't forget that the tanda, with the intervening cortina, is simply a construct. In one view, 'traditionally' (or at least pre-Golden Age), simply as a means to offer the lata:
In the early times tango was danced in academias, pirigundines, brothels, clandestine casinos and bars.The organizer charged every man a certain amount for every six minutes of dance and paid the women a certain amount for the whole evening. Later on men had to buy chips that they had to give to the women in order to dance with them.The moment to end the tanda, pay the chips, go and sit for a while wasa nnounced by the 'Cortina'.
Others put the reason as simply bracketing songs, possibly due to adverts on the radio.
I've been to traditional and alternative with 2 dances per tanda, typically 3, less frequently 4 (with 3 for milonga and vals).
Nowadays it depends on the DJ and the culture in your locale.
I'd guess cabeceo/mirada as a codigo simply arose as a means of refining that approach.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
I meant that as a personal preference, not so much what has become standard - two is too short for me to enjoy much of anything, and it would leave a sense of incompleteness even if I were dancing with the most perfect follower in the world. Three is fine, but then you run the risk of feeling incomplete again, which is what I occasionally feel when dancing my favourite vals tandas. Four is just right, because 10 - 11 minutes with a person feels long enough, and longer would just mean it starts to drag on and on.
I've danced at milongas with two-song tandas, and without cortinas between sets of songs, but it always felt more like speed-dating, which I don't enjoy very much. Of course, if your partner is a horrible follower, I would be very relieved to stop after just two songs. Considering that that mixer milonga is probably meant to get people to socialise more, I can see the justification.
Although speaking of timed dances, I recall reading a few articles about taxi dance halls. Very interesting material.
Well... the point of the format is to encourage people to dance with partners they might not initially have been interested in. Then you have a few minutes to try and make them interested.
In the context referenced, 2 dances/tanda sounds about right. It is essentially speed dating. Maybe there's going to be an app for it!
My earlier references to the pirigundines just show that there's nothing really new there; just an evolution, or re-invention with a clean-up.
If that's what rocks your boat, then ok. I personally prefer what's evolved in Europe as the 3 dance/tanda, but would like to see more social interaction as well rather than the aim to dance as many tandas as possible with as many partners as available. Hope there's room for all options.
Time will tell whether these events become a regular occurrence.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Yup, that would convince me to stay away.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
Definitely! Apropos of apps, isn't there a tango partner app out there? Never touched it since I was never interested in getting a regular dance partner, but it's a bit weird that something akin to a dating app like that exists for tango.
There is, but I've already got my partner for life, tango, and all events, so moved beyond that marketplace stage.
Makes sense if you're young, single, unattached, travel, dance AT, and surveying the opportunities. Claims not to be a dating app, but I guess you swipe right for a cabeceo and hope they don't swipe left.
What happens to old Argentine Tango dancers now? I guess the same thing as every year until the numbers fall away and the new wave takes over.
HaHaHaHa! I'm pretty sure I qualify as an "old" Argentine Tango dancer ("elderly" also applies to me based on when I was born), but unless I have an accident or parts needed for dancing stop functioning, I intend on continuing to dance. It wasn't AT, but I was recently chatted up and complimented on my waltz by a woman in (I'm guessing) her early 20s.
When AT became fashionable back in the 80s, 90s, etc there were many stories about women preferring to dance with the old milongueros. I didn't sense any change in things at the one event I attended recently, and I may go to the last Valentango milonga where the Alex Krebs orchestra is playing, just to check into a larger scene than the local place i went to.
The country scene has come back to life and I'm now seeing young women who know how to do some of common dances there (unlike back in the "covid days."
And speaking of Alex... The description of the Beyond Beginner class at his Tango Berretin includes this text. "Everyone will be learning both leading and following."
And speaking again of old dancers... I just read that there is a very strong correlation between physical activity and Not being hospitalized or dying from covid in older individuals, something I really really hoped was true during the whole pandemic.
When AT became fashionable back in the 80s, 90s, etc there were many stories about women preferring to dance with the old milongueros. I didn't sense any change in things at the one event I attended recently, and I may go to the last Valentango milonga where the Alex Krebs orchestra is playing, just to check into a larger scene than the local place i went to.
The country scene has come back to life and I'm now seeing young women who know how to do some of common dances there (unlike back in the "covid days."
And speaking of Alex... The description of the Beyond Beginner class at his Tango Berretin includes this text. "Everyone will be learning both leading and following."
And speaking again of old dancers... I just read that there is a very strong correlation between physical activity and Not being hospitalized or dying from covid in older individuals, something I really really hoped was true during the whole pandemic.
TTanguero
Forum Master
- Favorite Partner–Dance with your favorite partner (2-song tanda)
This comes from a list of things the ValenTango organizers are trying out? this year. If you go to their web site you will eventually see evaluations of how they were received / accepted by attendees.
It might be interesting.
It might be interesting.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
To be honest, I can't see it that way either. But people keep thinking about how to make dancing more attractive for men, here I am reading another article:
https://tangomentor.com/more-men/
But that is from 2017, my impression is that the general imbalance in dancing has not changed in the last 50 years here in Germany.
My concern is that, contrary to all statements, women don't really want to dance with women, and that we bring dissatisfaction into the milongas that would otherwise have been blocked outside. So that the two-tier society, that some women dance and others can't, is only replaced by that some dance with men and others can't.
On the other hand, this could in turn create incentives for men. In my opinion, it is not so wrong to assume that everything is always in a (changing) balance.
pianistamediano
Forum Master
It seems that trying to get men into tango (or, indeed, any partner dance) is a perennial concern, and has been for the past few decades. We no longer see anything resembling the desire (desperation, even?) that inflamed the immigrants and working-class men of Buenos Aires after the turn of the century, that made them willing to practise and dance as followers with more experienced men in practicas for years before they were allowed into the milongas to dance with the women. Although that situation occurred because of the massive imbalance in gender, since most of the immigrants were male.
Later on, swing, rock and roll, jive and jazz - all these were dances in vogue among young Americans (US), but I'm not really sure if the gender balance began to tilt towards the women at that point. Most men definitely enjoyed the music, but being able to socialise and interact with girls and, just perhaps, impress them with their smooth moves - that is an immensely strong factor in drawing men.
But now, there are so many other avenues for men to socialise with women, and it is not longer as restrictive as it was in the past. So while many ladies remain interested in dance, perhaps the fact that men can expend comparatively less effort in other activities and still meet women has caused this general imbalance. Even considering that there are men who are interested enough in the music or the dance itself, that is not enough to draw enough men in. So perhaps this is indicative of inherent preferences in men and societal pressure.
Moreover, the spreading acknowledgement and acceptance of the non-binary/queer/homosexual communities also means that people feel less pressure, and can make their own choices more freely - hence, a surge in the known number of male followers, female leaders, dual-roles, etc.. Perhaps this dilutes the population of male leaders and female followers even more, but I am not qualified to make that judgement.
With regards to this specific formulation of the problem, is it better phrased as: female followers don't get enough dances with male leaders - which implies something to do with heterosexuality, or is it more generally that female (male too?) followers don't get enough dances with leaders. I don't know if we are conflating the issue of not getting enough dances/not enough men, because men strongly tend to be leaders.
I also don't know if female followers enjoy dancing with lady leaders more than male leaders, or if it is the other way round (or equal overall), assuming ceteris paribus.
Later on, swing, rock and roll, jive and jazz - all these were dances in vogue among young Americans (US), but I'm not really sure if the gender balance began to tilt towards the women at that point. Most men definitely enjoyed the music, but being able to socialise and interact with girls and, just perhaps, impress them with their smooth moves - that is an immensely strong factor in drawing men.
But now, there are so many other avenues for men to socialise with women, and it is not longer as restrictive as it was in the past. So while many ladies remain interested in dance, perhaps the fact that men can expend comparatively less effort in other activities and still meet women has caused this general imbalance. Even considering that there are men who are interested enough in the music or the dance itself, that is not enough to draw enough men in. So perhaps this is indicative of inherent preferences in men and societal pressure.
Moreover, the spreading acknowledgement and acceptance of the non-binary/queer/homosexual communities also means that people feel less pressure, and can make their own choices more freely - hence, a surge in the known number of male followers, female leaders, dual-roles, etc.. Perhaps this dilutes the population of male leaders and female followers even more, but I am not qualified to make that judgement.
With regards to this specific formulation of the problem, is it better phrased as: female followers don't get enough dances with male leaders - which implies something to do with heterosexuality, or is it more generally that female (male too?) followers don't get enough dances with leaders. I don't know if we are conflating the issue of not getting enough dances/not enough men, because men strongly tend to be leaders.
I also don't know if female followers enjoy dancing with lady leaders more than male leaders, or if it is the other way round (or equal overall), assuming ceteris paribus.
Well analyzed!
It's the perennial problem of men trying to understand women, and maybe vice versa beyond the obvious stereotypes. That also extends way beyond dance.
The only other factors I'd throw in are that women talk to each other, and there's an attraction for the 'glitzy' on dancing as portrayed on Strictly/DWTS, but not necessarily with participation.
On the other side, AT does seem to attract the engineers and the geeks, or maybe that's just about where lessons and milongas take place.