Bad habits?

[Tango Distance]

The initial aim of most is to be able to go dancing.

I've yet to meet anybody who takes tango lessons for any other ultimate reason – though there's often a qualifier such as "go dancing as a couple activity with my life partner," "go dancing to meet people," or "go dancing because my doctor said it's the sort of light exercise I need." The existence of a qualifier doesn't lessen the desire to be able to dance at the milonga.

Things are different here in Tangst Desertus -- maybe we are the exception that makes the rule? Our number one demographic of students is divorced women, who quit as soon as they have a nontango boyfriend (the usual case). We also have a surprising number of lifetime students who take lessons year after year, but never or rarely go to a milonga. Beginner classes have a low conversion rate for taking the 2nd level class, or going to a milonga. BTW, this is very different from my Swing, Blues, and Contra experiences, where almost everyone goes to the dances.

Putting aside comparisons to other dances, this is typical of many activities I have seen. Maybe people do car racing just one time. Parachuting is dominated by people who do it just once. How many people who take French (in the U.S.) ever go to a French speaking country? How many people buy a camper, or a mountain bike, or skis, and use them just once (or never!)? So maybe it's not so crazy people just want to "give it a try" but obviously don't follow through with the "go dancing" part.

Someone mentioned having beginners start in close embrace. Please let us know how that works out, and if it does your secrets for success. No snark is intended. One of my instructors had four people walk out when he said to do close embrace in a beginner's class. Another instructor did close embrace in a beginner class. My wife heard someone say "I'm never coming back." The class very quickly went from around 12 people to 2. When I have traveled, the beginner classes are always open embrace, but all milongas I have traveled to have been close embrace. I think you have to hook people with open embrace, and later introduce them to close (the TD here being yet another example of that).

 

[itwillhappen]

Maybe people do car racing just one time. Parachuting is dominated by people who do it just once.

I understand. My sincere condolences.

 

[itwillhappen]

What I would like to see is more emphasis on technique at every level of the learning process: from the walk, to the sidestep, to the forward ocho, to the elements of the giro, and so on.

That depends a lot on your own learning path, your own goals and the intended target group.
For example, many women say 1) feel 2) feel 3) feel.

 

[Brummbaer]

Someone mentioned having beginners start in close embrace. Please let us know how that works out, and if it does your secrets for success. No snark is intended. One of my instructors had four people walk out when he said to do close embrace in a beginner's class. Another instructor did close embrace in a beginner class. My wife heard someone say "I'm never coming back." The class very quickly went from around 12 people to 2. When I have traveled, the beginner classes are always open embrace, but all milongas I have traveled to have been close embrace. I think you have to hook people with open embrace, and later introduce them to close (the TD here being yet another example of that).

That depends on the culture of your locale - and the background, and probably age of the participants (they may have been involved in dance previously). I'd say that close embrace, however you interpret that, needs to be introduced at a later stage in a beginner's class; certainly not from the start unless they're already dancers. But don't hide it away - talk about it.

I danced with someone just passing through at a recent class. I was uncertain how long she'd danced. We started, tentatively, in an open hold, which she chose, but then went to closed as it became obvious she was experienced. Covid-19 hasn't helped, but generally I find that you need at least a passing acquaintance (you're 'known') to use close hold.

 

[TTanguero]

We have other threads for bringing more people to tango, but I think classes that are 50/50 "how to dance" and "how to go dancing" would be better than the 90/10 model we have right now.

For me, the single biggest change needed here is to stress that figures/sequences are merely examples of the types of movement being explored – and to immediately show how you can use the same movements in a different way, most especially turning linear movements into circular ones that are more practical in a milonga.

Parachuting is dominated by people who do it just once.

As the old saying has it: If at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving isn't the hobby for you.

Ben

 

[JournalInTime]

We also have a surprising number of lifetime students who take lessons year after year, but never or rarely go to a milonga.

That seems like a weird use of time and money to me, but then I know a few "career students" who collect university degrees – which aren't cheap – yet never stay with the subject. One of my friends is up to eight, I think, including a Ph.D. in biology and a J.D., but works as an illustrator. I guess tango gets its share.

Parachuting is dominated by people who do it just once.

I regret my late arrival to this response . . . all the best jokes have been made.

How many people who take French (in the U.S.) ever go to a French speaking country?

Whereas here, over 2/3 of people have passports (vs. ~40% in the U.S.A.), almost all of those travel at least a little, and learning French is common because 20-25% of the country speaks it . . . driving many travelers to visit France. That sounds cultural!

Someone mentioned having beginners start in close embrace.

That was me!

Please let us know how that works out

Around here it works out for many teachers. I don't know their "secrets," other than they're all teachers who start out total beginners with private lessons from Day One; e.g., my friend C., who had never danced in his life, took one-on-one lessons with such a teacher from his first steps, and she refused to let him dance open at all. Perhaps it just isn't great for group classes? I confess to having more friends like C. than among those with whom I once took group lessons, so there's some selection bias here.

Of course, there's a cultural element to this as well. People here are huggy-huggy kissy-kissy when they greet friends. The idea of hugging someone you don't know well isn't particularly bizarre.

 

[JournalInTime]

That depends on the culture of your locale - and the background, and probably age of the participants (they may have been involved in dance previously). I'd say that close embrace, however you interpret that, needs to be introduced at a later stage in a beginner's class; certainly not from the start unless they're already dancers. But don't hide it away - talk about it.

Or, as I mentioned in my last reply, don't teach total beginners to dance close with other total beginners. Teach them to dance close with an established teacher with years of experience both teaching tango and dancing close. It isn't as if 30 seconds at the milonga while waiting to start class or whatever won't show people that's the normal embrace . . . Where I used to tend bar, the free intro lesson was just before the milonga, and people who came were quietly "forgotten" if they stayed to watch, with the hope of hooking them.

I danced with someone just passing through at a recent class. I was uncertain how long she'd danced. We started, tentatively, in an open hold, which she chose, but then went to closed as it became obvious she was experienced. Covid-19 hasn't helped, but generally I find that you need at least a passing acquaintance (you're 'known') to use close hold.

I guess that depends on what all the other couples are doing! Around here, they're mostly dancing closed, so it stands out if you aren't. There are events and cliques where that isn't the case, but last Saturday night, for instance, I danced closed with everybody – known or not – and the previous Wednesday I danced with mostly "not known" and started closed. It would've been almost rude if I had distanced them, in the context of how everybody else was dancing.

 

[JournalInTime]

For me, the single biggest change needed here is to stress that figures/sequences are merely examples of the types of movement being explored – and to immediately show how you can use the same movements in a different way, most especially turning linear movements into circular ones that are more practical in a milonga.

That would be great! All my best group-class teachers played a game: Here's the figure or sequence. Here's a variation. Now break into couples and come back here in five minutes, each with another variation. One of those teachers gave us a little longer and wanted three variations; also, he made it clear that they'd have to be danced to music, not in an acoustic vacuum . . . oh, and he was the teacher who'd jump into your path to remind you that you'd be doing it at the milonga. Good times.

(For context, that started at Level 3 out of six levels, where the average dancer was beginner-intermediate at best. It was not considered "advanced.")

 

[LadyLeader]

As I said in another thread, I think the idea of dancing some sort of pure tango sub-style is on its way out. I've heard similar things about the styles having become very mixed from several other highly reputed professionals

Talked with a friend about this and we ended up to keep the styles but we suppose that in future we will be called by names like Tango Salon Rex or Milonguerosaurus!

 

[ArbeeNYC]

Please let us know how that works out, and if it does your secrets for success. No snark is intended.

Instructors do that here in one of the first classes or, at least, demonstrate it. But it's taught pretty early on. Not every beginner student is into it, of course, and those people often drop it, but very few in my experience. Most humans enjoy being embraced.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

That depends a lot on your own learning path, your own goals and the intended target group.
For example, many women say 1) feel 2) feel 3) feel.

Feel? In what sense? If you mean emotional feeling, then no, no, and no. You won't feel anything if you can't dance. And what has that to do with the elements of technique anyway?

 

[Tango Distance]

Tango Distance said: Many people do car racing just one time.

I understand. My sincere condolences.

Very funny!

Ironically, I have seen more people hurt by Tango than legal and organized car racing! If you go the next logical step and use a metric of Tango injuries per kilometer danced, verses driver injuries per kilometer raced, Tango starts to look to be crazy dangerous. If you want an even better metric, add in that car racing is safer than regular street driving -- just driving to a milonga increases the danger even more! Hmmmm, maybe that is a way to get more men into Tango: Get the truth out that Tango is more dangerous than car racing!

 

[TTanguero]

Get the truth out that Tango is more dangerous than car racing!

Though tango fatalities are relatively rare.

 

[Mr. Moustachio]

Our number one demographic of students is divorced women, who quit as soon as they have a nontango boyfriend (the usual case). We also have a surprising number of lifetime students who take lessons year after year, but never or rarely go to a milonga.

This was my experience in Montreal in the '90s. Maybe JournalInTime's experience is different because his beginners saw a milonga before signing up for a course. Tango in a milonga is alien to most people unless they happen to pass by a tango-in-the-park event.

Someone mentioned having beginners start in close embrace. Please let us know how that works out, and if it does your secrets for success.

1) Show a close embrace without boob-to-chest contact.

2) The following is what Santiago (owner of the defunct l'Academie) did: have the students get up really close to each other, take a step back, then lean forward until they met. Boom, boob-to-chest contact. I don't know if anyone else did that locally.